< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Jul-15-10|| ||scormus: <FLIP ...> On mine it does if you click under the first rank|
|Jul-15-10|| ||zooter: To be honest, I did not get this fully, but I think 37...Nxe5 38.dxe5 (white must take the challenge to stay competitive) Bxe5 and now |
39.Rc1 (doesn't matter I believe whether the rook protects the knight first or the bishop) Qg2 40.Be1 b5 completes the sequence and black is up 2 pawns and regains the piece.
I did not really have the confidence in the first move, but once I saw the featured game collection says this is the first move, it gave me the confidence to go ahead and analyze it fully
Time to check. This is turning out to be a little above my standard this week...
|Jul-15-10|| ||zooter: <patzer2> gives 37...Nxe5 38.dxe5 Bxe5 39.Rc1 Bxc3!|
Any need for taking the bishop immediately? Does the simple Qg7 fail?
I also notice both <patzer2> and myself gave Qg2 instead of Qg7
|Jul-15-10|| ||Jimfromprovidence: <scormus> <Patriot> I think the 37...Qf5 38 Bd3 line is very playable for black. He has 38...Qf3, below, threatening 39...Nb2, forking the bishop and rook.|
click for larger view
The white bishop is pinned (because of ...Qxc3+). Now, if 39 bxc4 dxc4, below, black gets the white bishop next move and is up a pawn.
click for larger view
|Jul-15-10|| ||Patriot: <gropek> <When I finished all of that, I started, very calmly, to look for candidates(and this is other of my problems... I can't think on what to do very fast, and OTB my clock would flag very fast. If anyone knows a solution, please say to me>|
It sounds like you're a slow player (like me!). During a tournament the other day, I checkmated my opponent with only 2 seconds remaining and my second opponent with only 10 seconds remaining. This is a tough problem to kick. My instructor suggests playing a lot of 2 minute games with a 5 second increment or 5 minute games with a 5 second delay. The time control is useful if you typically play with a 5 second increment or delay so you may have to adjust the time control depending on what you typically use.
This helps improve board vision and also helps in practicing openings. You will know more quickly what is safe and what isn't...if something is en prise, etc. It will also point out flaws in time management. For example, if it's a book move then you shouldn't take 10 seconds to play it (e.g. in a 2 minute game). Or you take a lot of time figuring out which rook to move to the center when there is only a fraction of difference between the two. These types of non-critical moves should be played very quickly, while more time is spent on critical moves.
The main thing is that time management and analysis are closely related. Practice a good thought process consistently and try to take less time on non-critical moves vs. critical moves.
|Jul-15-10|| ||patzer2: <Zooter> Thanks for the correction. I obviously meant 37...Nxe5 38.dxe5 Bxe5 39.Rc1 Bxc3! 40. Rxc3 Qg7 sets the winning pin.|
|Jul-15-10|| ||cjgone: Got the first move, I assumed a knight pin would occur after he took my knight though, lol.|
I got it wrong after that.. I went ahead and took the bishop after he took my pawn.
|Jul-15-10|| ||gropek: <Patriot>
Thanks for the tips! :)
I'll start doing that, to see if it helps me. :)
But I'll have to wait, because I have a tournament on Saturday, and I don't want to get used to play 2 min games now, because it can make me to overlook things on the tournament(its 15 0).
Time management is a very hard topic. I guess people get better at it when they get more used to patterns and positions, and this only time can create. And I'm a chess player since 2009, so I have long way to go...
|Jul-15-10|| ||felixd: I saw that Qf5 was winning - and it was - , and I didn't search further... But both moves end the game anyway.|
|Jul-15-10|| ||Marmot PFL: In this complicated position, it is black to move. Nc4 is attacked, so why not sac for white's center pawns? 37...Nxe5 38 de Bxe5 and the threats to Nc3, including b4 and Qg7 seem too strong. At worst he regains the piece with a material and positional edge.|
|Jul-15-10|| ||Patriot: <<Jimfromprovidence>: <<scormus> <Patriot> I think the 37...Qf5 38 Bd3 line is very playable for black.>|
Yep...I saw that 38...Qf3 puts pressure on white and threatens the knight fork. I didn't see the move immediately and so dismissed 37...Qf5. After examining further it looks like a good move after all and probably winning.
|Jul-15-10|| ||jheiner: <Patriot> <gropek> Regarding time management, this is a topic that would be great to see discussed here. I also struggle with time management, however if you're not using up your clock, then you're playing too fast.|
I know I get caught in the trap of overthinking and will plan and replan a strategy during a match when I don't actually have the time to do that. However, becoming aware of your time usage helps, and I find myself getting better at stopping unnecessary analysis OTB but at least doing more than just shuffling the pieces around.
Also, the slow analysis here is helping greatly to keep from making bad moves and to be able to find candidate moves which is something everyone struggles with. GM's will blithely point out that the first step is to find the right candidates and then do the analysis, which skips a whole lot of mental work to just get to step one. I think these puzzles are a great way to get onto that step.
And <Patriot>, I think finishing with a few seconds and the win is laudable! Hats off to you. Must've been tense matches.
|Jul-15-10|| ||David2009: G Beikert vs Vallejo-Pons, 2008 Black 37...?|
Black has a tempting temporary sacrifice: 37...Nxe5 38 dxe5 Bxe5 and White's N is pinned and attacked. Black controls d4 twice, so 39 Bd4 does not work. This leaves 39 Be1 and now d4 wins back the piece. 40 Rc1 protects, but unfortunately for White dxc3 41 Bxc3 Bxc3 42 Rxc3 Qg7! pins the R and seems to win it
(if my sight of the board 5 moves ahead is right, not guaranteed). Time to check:
Yes. I had missed 38 Bxb5 which is a good try, but 38...Ng4 winning at least a piece is an easy move to find. Crafty End Game Trainer finds en even more efficient win in the main line, but my line iseems good enough. You are defending as White
starting as below:
click for larger view
Beikert vs Vallejo-Pons 2008 37?
Enjoy exploring the possibilities on-line and don't be too surprised at the inevitable result!
|Jul-15-10|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: In this middlegame position, black's king sits in the middle and is safe, while the white king sits in a castled position where a significant weakness has been forced by the black a-pawn. White's bishops (especially the bad Bf2) can do relatively little damage from behind the pawn chain, therefore the black knights are more valuable. With the Nc4 under attack, black's immediate choice is to move it or sac it to extend the initiative. My first candidate was 37... Rf8 with the idea 38.bxc4 Qxf2 39.Qxf2 Rxf2 40.cxd5 Nxd4! 41.d6+! Kd8 (Kd7? 42.Bg4+) 42.Rxd4 Bxe5 winning material, but white has 42.Kb1 with a complex position. Furthermore, white could duck with 38.Bg1. So I started looking at 37... Nxe5 and was on the verge of posting the solution as 37... Nxd5 38.dxe5 Bxe5 39.Be1 Qg7 40.Rc1 b4 where black regains the piece with winning connected passed pawns. However, white can decline with 38.Qb2 and it's tough to break through. So I started taking a fresh look at 37... Qf5, having rejected it quickly because of 38.Bd3. Finally the fog cleared:|
Threatening 38... Qc2 and seizing control of key light squares.
A) 38.Bd3 Qf3! 39.bxc4 (otherwise 39... Nb2 wins material) dxc4 (the point - the Bd3 is pinned) 41.Kb1 (d5? Bxe5 42.Qh7+ Ng7 43.Rc1 Qxd3) cxd3 42.Qg1 Rh8! and white has no good defense against the threat 43... Rh1! 44.Qxh1 Qxf2 winning.
B) 38.Rc1 Nxe5! 39.dxe5 Bxe5 40.b4 Rh8 41.Qg1 Qf6 42.Be1 d4 and black regains the piece with a big advantage
C) 38.bxc4? Qc2 39.Na4 Rxa4 40.Rb1 Qc3+ forces mate.
Time to see if there's something simpler...
|Jul-15-10|| ||wals: <e fred>, <johnlspouge>, re inverting the chess board, the Java Viewer,
Chess Viewer DeLuxe, has this facility.|
|Jul-15-10|| ||wals: Did not get within cooee of the solution.
Just for interest the following were moves available to White after 38...Ng4. All would be classified as blunders.
1. (-8.58): 41.Bxc6 Rc8
2. (-10.84): 41.Rf1 Nxd4
3. (-11.37): 41.Ba4 Nxd1
4. (-11.98): 41.Rc1 cxb5
5. (-13.53): 41.Re1 Bxd4
White lost the plot commencing:-
36.Qh2 -0.83. (Bg1, =0.10)
37.b3 -2.06. (Bxc4, -0.83)
38.Bxb5 -7.54. (Bxe3, -2.26)
courtesy of Rybka 3 1-cpu: 3071mb hash: depth 14:
|Jul-15-10|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: <Jimfromprovidence>: <<scormus> <Patriot> I think the 37...Qf5 38 Bd3 line is very playable for black.> |
I think it's as strong as the game continuation, but perhaps a bit more complicated.
If anyone would care to try to defend the alternative solution found independently by <C4gambit>, <Jimfromprovidence>, <scormus>, amd yours truly, try it out at http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...
|Jul-15-10|| ||BOSTER: <Jim> <I saw 37...Qf5... 38.Bd3 line is very playable for black 38...Qf3 if 39.bxc4 dxc4 black gets the white bishop and is up a pawn.>
But after 40.Qg1 cxd3 41. Be3 pawn on d3 is weak and white pieces are getting more coordinated then before move 37.
My opinion that move 37...Nxe5 is much stronger and more logical.|
|Jul-15-10|| ||Patriot: <BOSTER>
Black may have seen the difference and chose the game line, but maybe he didn't feel it necessary for him to analyze 37...Qf5 fully because as you said 37...Nxe5 is much stronger and more logical.
I think that if there is more than one variation that wins and just as strong or stronger than the game continuation, the variation that is definitely winning with less complication is, in my opinion, superior when it comes to human players. I've seen where GM's could have played simple chess and won but instead chose complex variations they thought were better and gave their opponent chances to draw or turn the game in their favor.
Thanks! The matches were certainly tense on my side of the board!
|Jul-15-10|| ||Jimfromprovidence: <BOSTER> <But after 40.Qg1 cxd3 41. Be3 pawn on d3 is weak and white pieces are getting more coordinated then before move 37. My opinion that move 37...Nxe5 is much stronger and more logical.>|
In retrospect 37...Nxe5 may be simplest and truest as you say, but on instinct 37...Qf5 seemed best to me.
In your line above , I believe <CHESSTTCAMPS> suggested 41...Rh8 (threatening 42...Rh1) in an attempt to protect black's d pawn.
click for larger view
The position he and I like is not clearcut but does seem strong for black.
|Jul-15-10|| ||caissafan1963: Anyone refute ajk68's suggestion? I think Black is doing well after 40. ... Rc8, but no quick win. Perhaps 37. ... Qf5 is best after all.|
|Jul-15-10|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: <Jimfromprovidence> <BOSTER> |
Playing white against Crafty via the link that I reference in my last post http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t... , I reached the position that <Jim> diagrammed in his last post and I could not defend the position in 3 attempts. My first try was 43.Qf2 Qxf2 44.Bxf2 Rh2 45.Ne4 c5 46.dxc5 Bxe5+ 47.Kb1 Bd4 48.Bxd4 Nxd4 and white can't seem to save the game. Give it a try - perhaps you can improve.
Chessmaster came up with 38.Rd3 instead of 38.Bd3 and as black, I was not able to defeat that in one attempt. More research needed....
|Jul-16-10|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: In the line referenced previously, black should reach a won ending after 37... Qf5 38.Rd3 Rf8 39.Bg1 Nxe5 40.dxe5 b4 41.g4 Qxe5 42.Qxe5 Bxe5 43.Kb1 bc (Analysis via Crafty & Chessmaster.) |
I may have missed the interpolation 38... Rf8 when I played against Chessmaster.
|Jul-16-10|| ||tacticalmonster: 1) Black knight is hanging
2) Black queen has posession of the open-file attacking the underprotected bishop
3) Black rook can seize the h-file attacking the out of placed queen
4) g7 bishop shadow on the WK and unprotected knight along the g7-a1 long diagonal
Candidate: 1 Nxe5
a) 2 dxe5 Bxe5 3 (Be1 or Rc1) b4 net Black two pawns
b) 2 Qg2 ( stop 2 Nf3) Rf8 3 Be3 Nf3! 4 Rf1 N6xd4 5 Bxd4 Bxd4 6 Rxf3 Qg7 net Black two pawns
|Jul-16-10|| ||newzild: < Jimfromprovidence:> Yes, I also looked at Qf5 first. Apart from the defence you mention, white also has Rc1 and Bd3|
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