< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 14 OF 14 ·
|Jan-28-09|| ||percyblakeney: <<But who of us without an engine would dream that ...Bd3 was losing?>|
Yeah, it was quite surprising>
It is an impressive finish by Carlsen. My Shredder 10.1 isn't one of the strongest engines but still listed as 2800 and it often sees quite difficult winning lines in a second or two. Here it takes one minute until it stops recommending 32. ... Bd3, so it was hardly a trivial win Carlsen found here.
|Jan-28-09|| ||Karpova: <THE pawn: Whatever people say about Carlsen, this kid has it all. In a worse position, he managed to quickly spot 32...Bd3?>|
Impressive play by Carlsen without a doubt.I just want to add that according to Rybka 3, Carlsen's position wasn't worse. After 30...Bc2 (Rybka 3 awards this move a ?!) the position was better for White (+0.07 if Black had played 30...Bd5), 32.Qb2 got a ! and if Dominguez had played the better 32...Be4 the evals would still have been around +0.59.
For sure, the way they play is impressive. For example, yesterday Karjakin found almost always Rybka 3's top choice in a Queen ending. But also very good tactical vision from Carlsen - in the end, the a1-h8 diagonal was decisive, not the a6-f1 diagonal.
|Jan-28-09|| ||avidfan: |
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The final position shows Black unable to defend against mate at both g7 and h7 because he is also plagued by a weak back rank. 39.Qh6 is a good `puzzle' move for beginners to find.
Black ignored king safety by allowing control of the 7th rank with 34.Rb7 by moving the LS to d3 which Be4 would have prevented. 9...f5 contributed to the weak 7th rank.
e5 was attacked overwhelmingly by White on 35.Re1
|Jan-28-09|| ||Eyal: Moves 30-33 are very instructive in terms of piece coordination; compare the position after 29....Rbd8 with the one reached after 33.Rb7 - White has used those moves to beautifully coordinate his pieces, whereas Black's queen and bishop moves only spoiled it.|
|Jan-28-09|| ||khursh: <Chessmensch: <KingG> The most attractive kind of chess is the kind that wins. Plain and simple.>|
LoL, That means that patzers' chess is the most attractive. Their draw rate is less than 5%.
|Jan-28-09|| ||I3illieJoe: Congrats to the genius from Norway, and future world champion !!|
|Jan-28-09|| ||Ulhumbrus: After 36 Nxe5 suppose Black plays 36...Kg8 so that Nxg6 will not be check. Then one of the simplest ways to win is 37 Rxe2! Qxe2 38 Qb3+ with the Philidor smothered mate: 38...Kh8 ( 38...Kf8 39 Qf7 mate) 39 Nf7+ Kg8 40 Nh6+ Kh8 ( 40...Kf8 41 Qf7 mate) 41 Qg8+! Rxg8 42 Nf7 mate.|
|Jan-28-09|| ||percyblakeney: Crowther at TWIC apparently didn't think it was too hard to see Carlsen's win:|
<it must be the case that Dominguez switched off a bit because it wasn't that hard to work out why his 32...Bd3 was losing>
|Jan-28-09|| ||Ulhumbrus: One difference between 32...Be4 and 32...Bd3 is that 32...Be4 prevents 33 Rb7.|
A much less obvious difference between 32...Bd3 and 32...Be4 is that after 32...Be4, in the event that Black answers the capture 33 Nxe5 with 33...Kg8, White cannot give a check with his Q on the a2-g8 diagonal and begin a Philidor smothered mate, whereas after 32...Bd3, following the moves 33 Rb7 Qc2 34 Qb4 Rfe8 35 Re1 Be2, in the event that Black answers the capture 36 Nxe5! with 36...Kg8 White is able to sacrifice his R for the B on e2 and then to check Black's King with his Q on the a2-g8 diagonal.
Nor is it obvious that after 32...Bd3 White can offer a piece by 36 Nxe5! and after 36...Bxe5 37 Bxe5+ Rxe5 gain a winning attack by 38 Qf4!!
|Jan-28-09|| ||KingG: <The most attractive kind of chess is the kind that wins. Plain and simple.> Strange definition, but whatever makes you happy. Obviously what's ugly to some people is beautiful to others.|
|Jan-28-09|| ||percyblakeney: GM Zagrebelny on the game:
|Jan-28-09|| ||parmetd: carlsen's first win of the tournament and what a beauty!|
|Jan-28-09|| ||AuN1: since when is swindling admirable?|
|Jan-28-09|| ||MoonlitKnight: Carlsen had a dominating position in the opening. Dominguez found a brilliant way to equalize, but spent most of his time doing so. Carlsen then declined his draw offer and was able to constantly pose new threats to his position. During strong zeitnot Dominguez was unable to defend. I wouldn't call it a swindle.|
|Jan-29-09|| ||zatara: <khursh: <Chessmensch: <KingG> The most attractive kind of chess is the kind that wins. Plain and simple.>|
LoL, That means that patzers' chess is the most attractive. Their draw rate is less than 5%.>
That means that a game doesn't loose it's beauty because fritz at one point showed -0.20(for the side that won the game).Chess IS about winning and Khursh is absolutly right.We like the kind of chess that we think that it's the most winning and all the diversity of views is excactly about that..
|Jan-29-09|| ||arsen387: <AuN1: since when is swindling admirable?> since people began playing chess :)|
|Jan-29-09|| ||shorsman: <It's not like he's blowing everyone out of the water.>|
!!! Dominguez didn't realise he'd lost until he eeerrrm lost. How is that not blowing someone out of the water. The Bd3 trap was truly great chess.
|Jan-29-09|| ||chancho: <<<>>>> |
<<chessmensch> <:The most attractive kind of chess is the kind that wins. Plain and simple.>
<KingG>: Strange definition, but whatever makes you happy. Obviously what's ugly to some people is beautiful to others>
Strange place for a Lasker quote, I know, but I decided to post it, based on the above exchange between <Chessmensch and KingG>:
<Dr Tarrasch is a thinker, fond of deep and complex speculation.
He will accept the efficacy and usefulness of a move if at the same time he considers it beautiful and theoretically right.
But I accept that sort of beauty only if and when it happens to be useful. He admires an idea for it's depth, I admire it for it's efficacy.
My opponent believes in beauty I believe in strength. I think that by being strong a move is beautiful too.>
|Jan-29-09|| ||rogge: Carlsen is <Laskeresque>.|
|Jan-29-09|| ||KingG: <chancho> Well, I often think that of all the previous world champions's Carlsen's play perhaps resembles Lasker's the most, with elements of Fischer as well. But I've never been a fan of Lasker's style of play.|
The best chess is obviously the kind that wins, but I don't see why that should necessarily be attractive. Computers play very strong chess, but I don't find much beauty in that either.
But anyway, taste isn't objective, so I'm only giving my point of view.
|Jan-29-09|| ||chancho: <KingG: But anyway, taste isn't objective, so I'm only giving my point of view.> |
I enjoy the sacrificial slashing attacks of a Tal in his games, and also the logic of a Capablanca as he won games in crystal clear positions. Chess is a wondrous game. That anyone person who takes an interest in the Royal game can leave their own unique imprint as to the type of play they prefer is probably what makes it a most attractive game imo.
|Jan-29-09|| ||Ulhumbrus: 39 Qh6 threatens mate on not just one point but two, the points h7 and g7, and the only line which a Black heavy piece could use to defend both- the seventh rank- is controlled by White.|
|Jan-29-09|| ||zatara: <KingG:The best chess is obviously the kind that wins, but I don't see why that should necessarily be attractive. Computers play very strong chess, but I don't find much beauty in that either.>|
It is attractive in the degree you understand this kind of chess or in other words in the degree you can see yourself playing this kind of chess..
|Feb-06-09|| ||notyetagm: This game won the <<<Sokolov prize>>> as the Best Game Of Round 10.|
|Feb-06-09|| ||notyetagm: <Eyal: Moves 30-33 are very instructive in terms of piece coordination; compare the position after 29....Rbd8 with the one reached after 33.Rb7 - White has used those moves to beautifully coordinate his pieces, whereas Black's queen and bishop moves only spoiled it.>|
29 ... b8-d8
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