< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Dec-31-10|| ||malbase: This game appeared in the New York Times in 1962,
in the chess column. I remembered the game.
|Dec-31-10|| ||Once: <Shams> Like it! A beautiful example.|
|Dec-31-10|| ||David2009: E Eliskases vs C Bielicki, 1962 White 28?|
28 Rf6 forces 28...Bxf6 29 Qxg6+ Kf1 30 Nxf6 and Black's King is very exposed. However this may not win.
Instead, 28 Nf6+ wins at least the exchange after Kf7 or f8 29 Nd7+. If 28 Nf6+ Bxf6 29 Qxg6+ Kh8 30 Qxh6+ Kg8 31 Qg6+ Kh6 32 Rf6 should win. Time to
I found the game continuation but did not analyse the best defence 28...Qxf6! after which White is comfortably ahead on material.
Crafty End Game Trainer check: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...
The EGT puts up its usual tough resistance, following the game line until
click for larger view
when it improves with 36...Rc3! immediately. White now has interesting problems converting the full point.
Time to stop and enjoy the other kibitzes. Meanwhile - beat Crafty EGT if you can and post the win! In the link above, you are white, drag and drop the move you want to make.
|Dec-31-10|| ||Penguincw: I thought Qe7 would be good because it offers a queen exchange and supports Rf7.However if black does accept it after ...Qxe7 29.Nxe7+ I realized that black has a connected passed pawn. |
click for larger view
|Dec-31-10|| ||JG27Pyth: Odd. Although some wednesdays and thursdays have given me some trouble lately I got this one without much fuss. I like Jim from Providece's improvement.|
|Dec-31-10|| ||Primoman: Why is this difficult? It's a lot easier than yesterdays.|
|Dec-31-10|| ||WhiteRook48: I got a Friday puzzle. This was actually easier than yesterday's and the wednesday of this week. 28 Nf6+
if 28...Bxf6, then 29 Qxg6+.
if 28...Qxf6, obviously, 29 Rxf6
|Dec-31-10|| ||Patriot: I took more time to solve this than should have.
I didn't see a quick knock-out at first glance so I checked material (even) and looked at black's threats (...Rxb2).
I proceeded to look at moves, including crazy moves (e.g. Qxg6, Rf7, Ne7+ which isn't that crazy), and thought 28.Rf6 is interesting. After 28...Bxf6 29.Qxg6+ Kf8 30.Nxf6 it isn't so clear how to proceed. So then I turned my attention to 28.Nf6+ and everything started to click.
A) 28...Bxf6 29.Qxg6+ Kh8 (29...Kf8 30.Rxf6+ Qxf6 31.Qxf6+ ) 30.Qxh6+ Kg8 31.Rxf6
B) 28...Kh8 29.Qxg6 Bxf6 30.Qxh6+ Kg8 31.Rxf6 as in (A).
C) 28...Kf8/Kf7 29.Ne8+ followed by 30.Nxd6 is sufficient.
I missed 28...Qxf6, which looks dead lost anyway.
What bothered me is how much time it took to find the first move, which is a check! I'm always suggesting that you should look at checks, captures, and threats (in that order) but what stopped me? I looked at the move but dismissed it as "dropping a piece" early on (a quiescence error).
The answer to help alleviate this problem is "MHM", an acronym NM Dan Heisman likes to use. When looking at forcing moves, don't just stop at the first move because it doesn't look safe. Look at MHM (My move, His move, My move). If the crazy-looking move appears dead in the water after that, it probably is! This simple advice, followed consistently, would have helped me solve today's problem in much less time and should help greatly OTB.
So looking at this problem with this new insight, our logic may go as follows:
"Look at all checks"
A) 28.Qe6+ Qxe6 and it's clear that any check or capture after that is throwing away material.
B) 28.Qe8+ Rxe8 and it's clear there are no more safe checks.
C) 28.Ne7+ Kh7 seems obvious to protect g6. 29.Qxg6 Qxg6 30.Nxg6 -- dead. 29.Nxg6 Qxg6 and I see no way to proceed so this is dead also. 28.Ne7+ Kh7 29.Rf6 looks crazy enough thanks to 29...Qxf6.
D) 28.Nf6+ Bxf6 29.Qxg6+ which so far looks good since the king is seriously under attack and the bishop on f6 is going to be won with initiative.
Usually we subconsciously throw out crazy moves as in (A) and (B), but if we're not careful we can easily throw out the game line because f6 is attacked twice and protected once. That's why MHM is good to practice consistently. After a while, you should become proficient and problems like this are a "piece of cake". It wasn't for me, so it's evident that I'm not using this technique consistently.
|Dec-31-10|| ||scormus: scormus: <Jim ... 29. Qd5+> Nice find!|
I missed most everything today :(
Happy New Year everyone, and thanks to CG for some great puzzles and games. Whatever else happens in 2011, I hope it will be a good year for chess.
|Dec-31-10|| ||gofer: After couple of minutes I like Nf6+, it wins a pawn and starts an attack that looks difficult to stop! |
<28 Nf6+ ...>
28 ... Kf8/Kf7 29 Ne8+ winning the queen
28 ... Bxf6 29 Qxg6+ Kh8 30 Qxh6+ Kg8 31 Rxf6 winning
28 ... Kh8 29 Qxg6+ Bxf6 30 Qxh6+ Kg8 31 Rxf6 winning
<28 ... Qxf6>
<29 Rxf6 Bxf6>
<30 Qe6+ Kg7>
<31 Qd7+ Kg8>
<32 Qd6 Rf8>
<33 Qxc5 ...>
Now this seems to be winning, okay its not there yet but the black king still isn't 100% safe and so white will have chances to snap up other pawns...
Time to check!
Interesting, I looked at 30 Qxg6+ but felt it allowed the king to safety too easily! So what do the silicon monsters say? Is 30 Qe6+ better or worse than 30 Qxg6+????
|Dec-31-10|| ||gofer: Happy New Year All!!!
<Scormus: Jim ... 29. Qd5+ Nice find!> I agree. I looked at Qd5+ before Rxf6, but didn't follow it through. Nice find indeed!
|Dec-31-10|| ||Once: <patriot> Nice description of your thought process, as always. Very enjoyable to read.|
I know that Dan likes to focus on the "examine the most forcing moves" method, but it isn't always the fastest way to solve a puzzle. The alternative way is to think first about what you are trying to achieve, and only then to start examining candidate moves.
In today's POTD, if you think first about what you want to do it doesn't take too long to spot the plan of <block the sixth rank> and then <Qxg6>. It's then just a case of which move to play to block f6 - 28. Rf6 or 28. Nf6+.
I think that's why several folk found this one quite easily. The basic plan is fairly easy to see and there are only two candidate moves to analyse.
But I am always a little wary of diving straight in to analysing every forcing move. It's a little like finding yourself at a party and going up to each eligible girl in turn and saying "will you marry me?" or something a little more adventurous perchance. And if (when!) she says "no", you turn to the next girl and repeat. Carry on until success.
As strategies go, it's viable but probably not to be recommended....
|Dec-31-10|| ||fm avari viraf: There is nothing better to start a New Year by finding the correct solution! Though, it's difficult, the first part of the combination looks easy with 28.Nf6+ where Black can either grab with 28...Bxf6 then 29.Qxg6+ or 28...Qxf6 then 29.Qd5+ Kh7 or h8 then 30.Rxf6 Bxf6 and 31.Qd6 winning a piece & the game!
Wishing chessgames.com & all the chess lovers "A Very Happy & Prosperous New Year 2011."|
|Dec-31-10|| ||Patriot: <Once> Thanks again for your comments. I always enjoy getting feedback and your posts are always well composed. I've even thought about mentioning your good writing to Dan and if it's possible some of your writing could be included in his books or articles.|
Your suggestion is another approach. But I don't think mine (or Dan's) has to be less efficient. Just as <Life Master AJ> has his famous "checklist" which takes time to become proficient at, I also think one can become proficient at looking at forcing moves in the fashion of "MHM". In theory it should be possible to do this quite fast as a preliminary scan to look for potential candidates. Unless there's a quick checkmate, it's a good idea to be aware of material differences and know what threats are present before doing so.
To help prove my point, here's a question: How many puzzles can you think of that DO NOT start with a check, capture, or threat? Most of the time, they start out with such a move and it continues until it's a clear win. I can think of one such position right off-hand involving zugzwang and they may be the exception to this. Here's what I have in mind (white to play):
click for larger view
1.Kg7! wins since black must now lose the queen. This move is not a check, nor a capture, nor a threat in itself. This falls in line more with the approach you suggest. The king doesn't attack anything (except squares!) so it isn't a threat, but instead sets up one. It's essentially a queen trap.
But think back over the course of just this week. Each time, my approach should work just fine.
|Dec-31-10|| ||Caissas Clown: "I considered 28. Rf6, but it would seem Black survives and turns the tables after 28...Bxf6 29. Qxg6+ Kf8!".|
Thank you,Patzer. I shall claim half a point for at least getting the vulnerable entry square correct :-)
Off to the lovely Clovelly in Sydney now - no time to look at the ladies on the beach, as I shall be accompanied by Gligoric's book on Fischer-Spassky 1972!
|Dec-31-10|| ||dzechiel: <<Patriot> ... 1.Kg7! wins since black must now lose the queen. This move is not a check, nor a capture, nor a threat in itself. This falls in line more with the approach you suggest. The king doesn't attack anything (except squares!) so it isn't a threat, but instead sets up one. It's essentially a queen trap.>|
It's all that, but most importantly it's zugzwang. Black would be fine if he didn't have to move, but because the rules of chess require each side to move on their turn, black must move the queen to a square where it may be captured, giving white the victory.
|Dec-31-10|| ||M.Hassan: First: HAPPY HOLIDAY SEASON TO ALL KIBITZERS OF CG.COM IN PARTICULAR AND ALL CHESS PLAYERS IN GENERAL.
Second, The puzzle:
"Difficult" White to play 28.?
Materials are considered to be equal
28.Nf6+ Bxf6 < I dd'nt think that ...Kh8 would be a good move but did not follow why?>
time to check
Game continued longer than expected
|Dec-31-10|| ||OscarR: David, I think I'll go first with 37 Kf2
click for larger view
Then somewhere down the line, I'll try Qb4 followed by the advance of the a and c pawns, and possibly even exchange the queen for the rook.
|Dec-31-10|| ||Once: <Patriot> I think it depends on whether you want to get better at solving puzzles or better at playing chess ...|
Sure, in a puzzle the answer is nearly always a forcing move - a check or a capture. But in a real game you normally only get a "puzzle-type" position on a handful of moves. For the rest of the time, you need to find moves that don't involve forcing the pace, and that means having an idea about what you want to do with the position.
Thinking back over this week, this puzzle comes to mind:
Garcia vs Mecking, 1966
Now you could solve this by examining every check and capture, but most of us solved it quite quickly by homing in on the trapped white rook and looking for ways to exploit it. Look through the kibitzing and those who "saw" the answer almost straight away nearly always mentioned the words "trapped rook" rather than "try Ke8 and see what happens".
In a real game, with the clock ticking remorselessly, I would rather live by DAUT - don't analyse unnecessary tactics - than by a brute force search of every check and capture.
|Dec-31-10|| ||wals: Not even close.
Rybka 4 x 64
BLACK: depth : 18 : 6 min :
(+7.71)27...Qd6. Best, Qe8, -0.53.
1. (-0.53): 27...Qe8 28.Qxe8+ Rxe8 29.Nb6 d3 30.Rd1 Bxb2 31.Rxd3 Re6 32.Rd8+ Kf7 33.Rd7+ Ke8 34.Rb7 Bd4+ 35.Kg2 Re2+ 36.Kh3 Rb2 37.Kg4 Rb3 38.Kf4 Rxa3 39.Ra7 Ra2 40.Rxa4 Rxh2 41.Nd5 Rc2 42.Ra8+ Kf7
WHITE: depth : 19 : 4 min :
(+3.05):29.Rxf6. Best, Qd5+, +7.71.
1. (7.71): 29.Qd5+ Kh7 30.Rxf6 Bxf6 31.Qd6 Rxb2 32.Qxf6 Rb7 33.Qc6 Rb1+ 34.Kg2 Rb2+ 35.Kh3 g5 36.Qxc5 Rd2 37.Qe7+ Kg6 38.Qe1 g4+ 39.Kxg4 Rb2
BLACK: depth : 18 : 4 min :
(+6.47):36...Re3. Best, Rc3, +4.75. Black has no hope.
38...d3, +12.44,( best, Kg6, (+6.48),
ended the game for Black, who resigned
move 41... .
|Dec-31-10|| ||Jimfromprovidence: Happy New Year to all fellow chess enthusiasts from this corner of the global chess village, Ventura County CA.|
Please keep this famous quote in mind (commonly attributed to Dorothy Parker) as you make your way through tonight's festivities.
“I’d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy”.
|Dec-31-10|| ||Patriot: <<Once>: <Patriot> I think it depends on whether you want to get better at solving puzzles or better at playing chess ...>|
I would rather get better at playing chess, of course!
<Sure, in a puzzle the answer is nearly always a forcing move - a check or a capture. But in a real game you normally only get a "puzzle-type" position on a handful of moves. For the rest of the time, you need to find moves that don't involve forcing the pace, and that means having an idea about what you want to do with the position.>
I totally agree.
<Now you could solve this by examining every check and capture, but most of us solved it quite quickly by homing in on the trapped white rook and looking for ways to exploit it. Look through the kibitzing and those who "saw" the answer almost straight away nearly always mentioned the words "trapped rook" rather than "try Ke8 and see what happens".>
Very true. Good point.
<In a real game, with the clock ticking remorselessly, I would rather live by DAUT - don't analyse unnecessary tactics - than by a brute force search of every check and capture.>
During a game you're already familiar with many aspects in the position because you've played the game up to that point. I agree that, for example, it might be a waste of time considering RxN on every move. Even I don't do that. With puzzle positions, we have no idea what the previous move was and so anything is possible. OTB we must rely on visual cues (like "LPDO", exposed king, etc.). In today's position there is a loose piece--the black queen and yes, I eyeballed g6 because it is barely defended. If the rook were defending the queen on d8, 28.Nf6+ would not look promising.
I may agree with you more than we both realize. I believe I was confusing different areas of thought process. MHM makes sense but only if there is something in the position suggesting it.
|Dec-31-10|| ||Patriot: <dzechiel> <It's all that, but most importantly it's zugzwang. Black would be fine if he didn't have to move, but because the rules of chess require each side to move on their turn, black must move the queen to a square where it may be captured, giving white the victory.>|
Yep! That's what I called it just before the diagram.
|Dec-31-10|| ||Patriot: <Once> I would also add that MHM is useful to make sure there are no forcing replies that defeat a candidate move.|
|Dec-31-10|| ||TheBish: E Eliskases vs C Bielicki, 1962|
White to play (28.?) "Difficult"
White wins with 28. Nf6+! Qxf6 (also losing are 28...Kf8 29. Ne8+, 28...Kh8 29. Qxg6 Bxf6 30. Qxh6+, and 28...Bxf6 29. Qxg6+ Kh8 30. Rxf6) 29. Qd5+! (the key) Kh7 30. Rxf6 Bxf6 31. Qd6 and White will win the bishop, leaving him up a queen for a rook.
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·