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Veselin Topalov vs Gata Kamsky
Topalov - Kamsky Match (2009)  ·  Gruenfeld Defense: Russian. Accelerated Variation (D81)  ·  1/2-1/2
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Kibitzer's Corner
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Feb-20-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  OneArmedScissor: Capitalism.
Feb-20-09  Valmy: We must not mix two differents thinks.
"The Copyrigh" which allows the creator of something to use it with exclusivity in a commercial point of view (applies to art and technology), and "the right to broadcast" which is the right to broadcast in live an ongoing event. The event does not need to be protected by copyright to be subject to broadcast right. To keep the same example, as fas as I know, soccer is not subject to copyright...Players or trainer don't owe the games, but a soccer game is subjest to broadcast right. I think that in 1972, a TV channel bought the right to brodcast FISHER/SPASSKY and I doubt, but I am not sure, that other channels broadcasted at the same time in live. Others channels have the right to give the result or, in an information show, to explain briefly what is going on. This is an other right, the right to give information. But it's clearly limitated, in any country I suppose. And I would say, but I could be wrong not knowing the US law, that you cannot use the right to information to broadcast thoroughly, a live chess game, if this game is submitted to broadcast right. But maybe Chessgames called it's lawyer before and he found something. BTW, I am not sure that my english is good enough to explain those kind of things.
Feb-20-09  messachess: just played over the game: Amazingly, Gata appears to the more aggressive player in this match, choosing the apparently sharpest lines in the sharpest of openings. I'm very glad to see it, but will it succeed?
Feb-20-09  sillybilly47: Anand--the clock is ticking. Topa is coming. Topa forever!
Feb-20-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  An Englishman: Good Evening: Looks like another one of those games where both players fight so hard but so well that it could never end in anything but a drew.
Feb-21-09  zdigyigy: Drawski!! Topalov draws with white and wins with black.....I wonder what GM Suba would say about this?
Feb-21-09  stefan1967: I suppose, all bulgarian chess fans (like me) are glad, that they can see the moves on CG. CG is not broadcasting the live match, but the moves. So it's the same like showing the live score of a futball match. I don't think the organizers of this event have the right to forbid anybody to broadcast the moves...
Feb-21-09  stefan1967: <We don't need permission, because in the USA (and most civilized nations) chess moves are regarded as "facts"> Lol!!! :-)))))
Maybe this pity announcement tries to insist, that the "uncivilized bulgarian nation" has anything to do with this ridiculous chess war?

Feb-21-09  Valmy: IMHO When you broadcast in live every single move you obviously broadcast the game, most of all if you show the moves on a chessboard. But I may be wrong, of course.
Feb-21-09  stefan1967: Whatever is the truth, all this is a matter of international law and not of "civilization's level" of nations.
Feb-21-09  2ndNature: I don't understand why CG is calling the USA a civilized nation... unless invading a souvereign country based on falsified reasons is considered an acting in a civilized manner.
Feb-21-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <jhoro: i don't know about the legal side, but as a Bulgarian am a bit ticked at the cheap shot from CG <We don't need permission, because in the USA (and most civilized nations) chess moves are regarded as "facts">

what does this have to do with how <civilized nation> Bulgaria is? if anything it is just the opposite - the more "civilized nations" have stricter copyright laws.>

It's not a "cheap shot." It does not say, or even imply, that Bulgaria is not a civilized country. It says that in most civilized countries chess games are regarded as non-copyrightable facts. Which is true.

Feb-21-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <dexterious: While I appreciate CG.com's effort to have a GM commenting on the game, I wish they could have gotten someone who sticks only to chess, and doesnt get his insecurities out in such ways (Svidler maybe?). But then of course, such GM's who don't have any axe to grind, would not be as cheap as Nigel here.>

There is nothing more tiresome on this site than some Armenian posters' obsession with Nigel Short. Get over it.

Feb-21-09  jhoro: <keypusher>, as <Valmy> pointed out it is about broadcast/distribution rights and not copy right. These commercial rights were given to the organizers by FIDE according to their agreement:

http://www.wccc2009.com/uploads/Fil...

As far as the comment about the copy right laws in the <civilized countries> I definitely disagree with you and CG. Copy right of chess moves has nothing to do with who's more civilized imo.

Feb-21-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <jhoro>

Once again: cg.com did not say, or imply, that Bulgaria was not a civilized country.

<As far as the comment about the copy right laws in the <civilized countries> I definitely disagree with you and CG. >

You do not know whether you disagree with me on copyright matters or not, because you don't know what I think about copyright matters.

Nowhere did I say or imply that the degree to which a country is civilized is equal to the strictness or laxity of a country's copyright laws.

I don't know how civilized you are, but your reasoning needs work.

Feb-21-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jim Bartle: "IMHO When you broadcast in live every single move you obviously broadcast the game, most of all if you show the moves on a chessboard. But I may be wrong, of course."

Internet sports sites with no broadcast rights follow baseball games pitch by pitch, and football and basketball games play by play. No copyright issues there. I'd think the moves of a chess game are the same.

Feb-21-09  Valmy: Interesting <JimBartle> Are you sure? Why do TV channels pays for if any one can broadcast a basket game play by play? Maybe they don't show pictures? Are you sure they don't pay for such a coverage play by play? I once followed a soccer game trough internet( FRANCE was playing in 2006 world cup). But they commented only some sequences in writing, show no picture and I would assume they paid something for that. Monday at work I will do some researches if I have time.
Feb-21-09  jhoro: <keypusher: Once again: cg.com did not say, or imply, that Bulgaria was not a civilized country.>

repeating myself for 5th time - there was no reason for inserting <as in USA (and most civilized countries)> except as a "subtle" insult.

<keypusher: You do not know whether you disagree with me on copyright matters or not, because you don't know what I think about copyright matters.>

i did not disagree with you on copyright matters. i disagree with you and CG on relating "civilized nation" with "copyrightability of chess moves" because of your original statement: <in most civilized countries chess games are regarded as non-copyrightable facts. Which is true.> it may be true, but it is irrelevant to the fact.

<keypusher: Nowhere did I say or imply that the degree to which a country is civilized is equal to the strictness or laxity of a country's copyright laws.>

i did not argue about the degree either. i'm saying they are pretty much unrelated especially in regards to chess moves.

<keypusher: I don't know how civilized you are, but your reasoning needs work.>

well, i don't know about how civilized you are either, but i'm staring to learn how impolite you can get

Feb-21-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jim Bartle: No, I'm sure cnnsi.com or espn.com do not pay for rights to follow the scores on their websites.

Of course in basketball or baseball getting the score is nowhere close to watching the game itself, or even listening to a play by play. Getting the moves in a chess game is virtually the equivalent of being there in person.

Turn to cnnsi.com tonight (8 pm EST) and click on the NBA scores, and then Miami-Philadelphia. You'll see up-to-the-minute scores, stats for every players, and what the last play was.

Feb-21-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  rogge: <Greed Works>, (Gordon Gekko)

It didn't.

Feb-21-09  Valmy: <JimBARTLE> How do you know they don't pay?
Feb-21-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jim Bartle: OK, I'm not 100% positive. 99%. Otherwise they wouldn't do that for dozens of game every day, many of which are of interest only to a few people.
Feb-21-09  Valmy: Wandering on the web I learnt that in FRANCE, a website paid to broadcast live soccer game during the 2006 World cup (YAHOO). Some paid only to show the goals in live: www.hermetet.com/blog/page/8/

YAHOO bought the right to broadcast NLF championship on the web outside of the US www.tvover.net/NFL+Yahoo+Broadcast+Live+Games+On- line.aspx.

I would say that chess is a sport or a show like any other else.

It can be broadcasted with commercial benefit (More members connected on Chessgames during the game, and hence higher adversing fees and more membership sold)

Feb-21-09  Valmy: <JimBarle> it seems that websites agree with a federation for the whole season and then can cover every single game.
Apr-10-09  WhiteRook48: why are you getting his user wrong?
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