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Shakhriyar Mamedyarov vs Igor Kurnosov
Aeroflot Open (2009), Moscow RUS, rd 6, Feb-22
Neo-Grünfeld Defense: Goglidze Attack (D70)  ·  0-1
ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 9 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Mar-06-09  DCP23: An interesting point, which I believe wasn't brought up before:

<Contrary to his initial claim, GM Mamedyarov actually complained of cheating FIRST and analysed the game with a Rybka engine AFTER that.>

This was noticed by several Aeroflot participants who witnessed the event, including, among others, GM Roman Ovetchkin

Mar-12-09  firefly3: Whether or not Kurnosov cheated, it is not fair for a player to leave the board after every move to smoke. It necessarily evokes the fear of cheating in the opponent, and in effect deals a heavy psychological blow. This can easily throw the opponent off and make him play second-rate moves.
Mar-12-09  hrvyklly: <firefly3> Nope. I leave the board after most moves, wander around, look at other games, go for smoke, spring a leak. When my opponent does it I never once conclude that he must be cheating. Play in a tournament some time yourself, you'll find yourself doing it too.
Mar-12-09  danielpi: <firefly> Everyone leaves the board from time to time. I don't leave the board after every move, but I've had opponents who do, and I have never thought that they were cheating. There's nothing unfair about it.

If I can handle it, so can Shak.

Mar-15-09  firefly3: Your arguments are unfounded. "I do it, so it must be okay."

I leave the board at tournaments too, but oftentimes I just walk around the playing hall. Leaving the board and leaving the room is different than leaving the board and staying in the room. And leaving the room a few times is different than leaving the room after every move.

If someone leaves the board AND leaves the room after every move of a game, it definitely evokes the fear of cheating. And, as I said, this deals a psychological blow. Also remember that world-class chess is only more paranoid.

Mar-21-09  revver: YouTube video on this game: http://tinyurl.com/dxwk6v

Mar-21-09  blacksburg: <firefly3> take a look at the first photograph.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail...

who's sitting at the board, and who has left the board between moves?

Apr-15-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  acirce: <Mamedyarov Rhapsody>

http://www.chessninja.com/dailydirt...

Apr-15-09  notyetagm: <acirce: <Mamedyarov Rhapsody>

http://www.chessninja.com/dailydirt...;

Incredible!

Apr-16-09  Nightranger: < Whether or not Kurnosov cheated, it is not fair for a player to leave the board after every move to smoke. It necessarily evokes the fear of cheating in the opponent, and in effect deals a heavy psychological blow. This can easily throw the opponent off and make him play second-rate moves. >

You'd rather they smoked at the game table?

When I actually used to play, with very few exceptions, I would wander because I didn't like sitting there while my opponents mumbled to themselves. And I actually had one guy tell me I breath too hard. He was losing of course... again.

Apr-16-09  arsen387: <acirce: <Mamedyarov Rhapsody>> ROTFL, that guy is a great poet!
Jun-17-09  LIFE Master AJ: Ah - the famous cheating game.

Did he ... or didn't he? I guess only his hairdresser will know for sure.

Bob ... at "Thinker's Press" (bob@thinkerspressinc.com) as written a VERY interesting piece on this. Its FREE, its an 'adobe' doc, and I am sure that he would be glad to send it to you. (While you are at it, buy a chess book from him. And tell him "A.J." sent you.)

Jun-17-09  Shams: <Ah - the famous cheating game.

Did he ... or didn't he? I guess only his hairdresser will know for sure.>

...or any clairvoyant masters he happens to play over the internet. They would know, Goldsby, right?

Jun-17-09  blacksburg: sometimes i feel bad for AJ because of all the flaming he gets as a result of his crazy nakamura cheating claim. but then i see him here drawing the fire upon himself, and i feel less bad for him.
Jun-18-09  LIFE Master AJ: Yawn. Who cares?
Jun-19-09  LIFE Master AJ: I could say, "The sky is blue," and some guys would argue the point ... and only because it was me that said it ... ... ...
Jun-19-09  kurtrichards: <LIFE Master AJ: I could say, "The sky is blue," and some guys would argue the point... and only because it was me that said it ... ... ...>

Those guys would say: "The sky is violet." :)

Jul-21-09  LIFE Master AJ: Too true!
Jul-21-09  LIFE Master AJ: Its possible that this game could force some organizers to curb basic players' rights.

I am not a smoker, nor do I condone the habit. (My wife died of cancer.) However, in a free society, I guess if anyone wants to smoke, you should not try to FORCE them to stop.

A "what if." What if orgaizers are forced to eliminate smoking during the game ... just because a player MIGHT be able to use the break from the board to cheat? Already the CCA has been forced to take nearly Draconian measures to prevent players from cheating during a game. (I support the CCA fully, however, like George Orwell warned, sometimes the efforts to stop a thing can be worse than the thing itself.)

Just some food for thought ...

Jul-21-09  LIFE Master AJ: Also - you should analyze this game with JUST a lower powered laptop ... (NOT a desktop PC); such as many of the Russians use.

Then all of Kurnusov's moves match a computer's perfectly. Is this enough to prove cheating? Maybe, maybe not. It certainly muddies the water more.

Jul-21-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Chessical: Life Master AJ - Further to your statement: <Then all of Kurnusov's moves match a computer's perfectly>.

Have you actually conducted a test? If so:

Which computer did you use?
Which program did you use?
What were its settings and the time parameters?

Only with this information can the claim be verified. Of course, that still would not prove that the allegation is true.

Jul-21-09  ILikeFruits: cheating is...
so naughty...
Jul-22-09  LIFE Master AJ: I used an older (version of) Shredder. My laptop was an HP (about 2-3 years old) with the "Cellaron" (?) processor.

I think the game settings were one of the standard tournamnet ones. I don't remember the times exactly, but if you play around a bit, you should be able to duplicate my results.

You should also read the PDF file from Bob Long at Thinker's Press.

Jul-22-09  whatthefat: <LMAJ>

1) Matching an engine on only a handful of moves outside theory is not unlikely (the position up to the 12th move is well known, and the novelty was even later). If you haven't done the same yourself on multiple occasions then I'm not sure how you attained your title. Or were you cheating too, AJ?

2) Moves are even more likely to match engine predictions in a tactical position such as here where there are few alternatives. 14...Rf7, 17...Rxg7 and 18...Qf4+ are all forced.

3) It has been pointed out repeatedly that 16...Qd6 was not the most accurate move (16...Nxb2 was better), and engines see this.

4) If you're going to make such offensive claims, you need to back them up or be prepared to suffer serious damage to your own character if you're wrong. At the very least, you should print a full log of the entire game analyzed by your engine to support your flimsy conjecture.

Jul-22-09  LIFE Master AJ: Same old stupid, ridiculous, inane comments. Go play in the street. (With you eyes closed.)
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