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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 148 OF 182 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Jul-20-09
 | | YouRang:  In my view, the only mystery left is after <33.Re1 Re8 34.Bxd5 Rxe1+ 35.Qxe1 cxd5 36.h4>, what will black play?I expect 36...Qxa2, taking away our outside passer, and with it our best winning chances. But they might play the edgier 36...d4, which is a bit more tactical, and may give black hopes of winning if we blunder. |
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Jul-20-09
 | | plang: <34.Bxd5 Rxe1+ 35.Qxe1
<35...cxd5>
<36.h4(!) Qxa2> [The following were all deemed good for White: 36...d4 37.h5 d3 38.h6; 36...h5 37.Qe8+; 36...Qc8 37.Qe6] <37.Qe8+ Kg7 38.Qe7+ Kg8 39.Qxf6 > 39...Qb1+ 40.Kh2 Qe4 and now 41.Qg5+ Kf7 42.f6 Qg6> Analysis from page 108. Instead of 42 f6 perhaps 42 h5 is an alternative. |
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Jul-20-09
 | | Gypsy: Looking at this with fresher eyes again, it still looks nontrivial to draw from the Black side. 34.Bxd5 Rxe1+ 35.Qxe1 cxd5 36.h4 <36...d4 37.h5 d3(?) 38.h6 Qxa2> 39.Qe8+ Qg8 40.Qe7! Qg5 41.Qd8+(Qf8+) Qg8 42.Qxf6+... 1-0. |
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Jul-20-09
 | | crawfb5:  Not that it matters for this vote, but the system is recording ...Rxe1+, ...Rxe1, and ...Re1 as different moves. |
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Jul-20-09
 | | scolley: <crawfb5: Not that it matters for this vote, but the system is recording ...Rxe1+, ...Rxe1, and ...Re1 as different moves.> I don't know for sure, but the system takes and posts the moves exactly as typed. |
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Jul-20-09
| | Gypsy: 34.Bxd5 Rxe1+ 35.Qxe1 cxd5 36.h4 <Qxa2> 37.Qe8+ Kg7 38.Qe7+ Kg8 39.Qxf6 <Qb1+> 40.Kh2 Qe4 41.Qg5+ Kf7 42.<f6> ... 42...<Qg6> 43.Qxd5+ Kxf6 44.Qd6+ K~ 45.Qxg6... 
click for larger view(a) 45...hxg6 46.Kg3... White seems winning (e.g., 46...Ke6 47.Kf5 Kf6 48.g3...) (b) 45...Kxg6 46.Kg3... White also seems winning (e.g., 46...Kh5 47.Kh3 Kg6 48.Kg4 Kh6 49.h5 Kg7 49.Kg5 Kf7 50.Kh6 Kg8 51.g3 Kh8 52.g4 Kg8 53.g5 Kh8 54.g6 hxg6 55.hxg6 Kg8 56.g7...) |
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Jul-20-09
| | plang: Good work; I think we twice previously assumed that that line was a draw. 36 h4 is a really nice move and they may not be expecting it. |
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Jul-21-09
 | | jepflast: Yeah, it's starting to look like at least this much is set in stone already: 34.Bxd5 Rxe1+ 35.Qxe1 cxd5 36.h4 |
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Jul-21-09
 | | OhioChessFan: <Gypsy: 34.Bxd5 Rxe1+ 35.Qxe1 cxd5 36.h4 <36...d4 37.h5 d3(?) >> 37...h6 |
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Jul-21-09
| | OhioChessFan: Here's my tries with <34.Bxd5 Rxe1+ 35.Qxe1 cxd5 36.h4 36...d4 37.h5 h6 > A. 38. Qe8+ Kg7 39. Qe7+ Kg8 40. Qxf6 (40. g4 Qf1+ 41. Kh2 Qf2+ 42. Kh3 Qf3+ 43. Kh4 Qh1+ etc etc) Qc1+ and the Queen is on Black squares and I see no escaping the checks with the help of the d4 Pawn, eg 41. Kh2 Qf4+ 42. Kg1 Qe3+ 43. Kf1 Qd3+ 44. Kf2 Qd2+ 45. Kf3 Qd3+ 46. Kf4 Qe3+ etc etc 38. Qe7 Qf1+ 39. Kh2 Qf4+ 40. Kg1 Qc1+ 41. Kf2 Qd2+ 42. Kf3 Qe3+ etc etc and the d4 Pawn is the glue holding the position together. Anything else, 38. g4, etc, Black just pushes d3. |
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Jul-21-09
| | OhioChessFan: I don't have time to blundercheck it, but I did find something that gives a little air to our King. Here is the first play through. 34.Bxd5 Rxe1+ 35.Qxe1 cxd5 36.h4 36...d4 37.h5 h6 38. Qe8+ Kg7 39. Qe7+ Kg8 40. Qxf6 Qc1+ 41. Kh2 Qf4+ 42. <g3> Qf2+ 43. Kh3 Qf1+ 44. Kh4 Qh1+ 45. Kg4 Qd1+ 46. Kf4 Qd2+ 47. Ke5
click for larger view |
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Jul-21-09
| | OhioChessFan: Found a problem with the above:
<46...Qf1+> and the King has to stay off Black squares or be skewered by Qb2+ or Qa6+ and I see no way to stop the checks. |
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Jul-21-09
| | plang: < OhioChessFan: Here's my tries with <34.Bxd5 Rxe1+ 35.Qxe1 cxd5 36.h4 36...d4 37.h5 h6 > A. 38. Qe8+ Kg7 39. Qe7+> I doubt that Black can play 37..h6.
After 38 Qe8+..Kg7 39 Qg6+..Kf8 (otherwise we win both pawns with check) 40 Qxh6+..Ke8 41 Qxf6..Qf1+ 42 Kh2..Qf4+ 43 Kh3 we must be winning. |
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Jul-21-09
| | YouRang: <Gypsy: 34.Bxd5 Rxe1+ 35.Qxe1 cxd5 36.h4 <Qxa2>
37.Qe8+ Kg7 38.Qe7+ Kg8 39.Qxf6 <Qb1+> 40.Kh2 Qe4 41.Qg5+ Kf7 42.<f6> ... 42...<Qg6> 43.Qxd5+ Kxf6 44.Qd6+ K~ 45.Qxg6...
> After <42.f6>, we have this position, where white clearly threatens Qg7+ [diagram]
click for larger view
What if black avoids this check with <42...Ke8!?>? We might continue: <43.Qg8+ Kd7 44.f7>, but then it looks like black gets a perpetual: <44...Qxh4+ 45.Kg1 Qe1+, etc.> Any white improvements? |
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Jul-21-09
| | Gypsy: <34.Bxd5 Rxe1+ 35.Qxe1 cxd5 36.h4 <Qxa2> 37.Qe8+ Kg7 38.Qe7+ Kg8 39.Qxf6 <Qb1+> 40.Kh2 Qe4 41.Qg5+ Kf7 42.<f6> ... 42...<Qg6> 43.Qxd5+ Kxf6 44.Qd6+ K~ 45.Qxg6... click for larger view
...
(b) 45...Kxg6 46.Kg3... >
Ok, the <46...h6!> ... draws it here, I think. |
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Jul-21-09
| | plang: <YouRang: <Gypsy: 34.Bxd5 Rxe1+ 35.Qxe1 cxd5 36.h4 <Qxa2> 37.Qe8+ Kg7 38.Qe7+ Kg8 39.Qxf6 <Qb1+> 40.Kh2 Qe4 41.Qg5+ Kf7 42.<f6> ...
42...<Qg6> 43.Qxd5+ Kxf6 44.Qd6+ K~ 45.Qxg6... >After <42.f6>, we have this position, where white clearly threatens Qg7+What if black avoids this check with <42...Ke8!?>? We might continue: <43.Qg8+ Kd7 44.f7>> How about 44 Kh3 with the idea of 45 Qg4+. With our a-pawn still on the board and their pawn still on d5 they cannot allow queen exchanges. |
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Jul-21-09
| | plang: <Gypsy: <34.Bxd5 Rxe1+ 35.Qxe1 cxd5 36.h4 <Qxa2> 37.Qe8+ Kg7 38.Qe7+ Kg8 39.Qxf6 <Qb1+> 40.Kh2 Qe4 41.Qg5+ Kf7 42.<f6> ... 42...<Qg6> 43.Qxd5+ Kxf6 44.Qd6+ K~ 45.Qxg6...
(b) 45...Kxg6 46.Kg3... >
Ok, the <46...h6!> ... draws it here, I think.>After 47 Kf4 how would they proceed?
If 47..Kf6 48 h5 and if 47..h5 48 Ke5 and if
47..Kh5 48 g3..Kg6 49 Ke5..Kh5 50 Kf6..Kg4 51 Kg6..Kxg3 52 h5 and wins!? |
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Jul-21-09
| | YouRang: <plang><How about 44 Kh3 with the idea of 45 Qg4+. With our a-pawn still on the board and their pawn still on d5 they cannot allow queen exchanges.> No, this is in the line where 36...Qxa2 was played, so we *don't* have our a-pawn still on the board. Unfortunately. :-\ |
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Jul-21-09
| | OhioChessFan: <What if black avoids this check with <42...Ke8!?>?> How about 43. Qh5+ Kd7 44. f7 |
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Jul-21-09
| | Gypsy: <plang: <... <34.Bxd5 Rxe1+ 35.Qxe1 cxd5 36.h4 <Qxa2> 37.Qe8+ Kg7 38.Qe7+ Kg8 39.Qxf6 <Qb1+> 40.Kh2 Qe4 41.Qg5+ Kf7 42.<f6> ... 42...<Qg6> 43.Qxd5+ Kxf6 44.Qd6+ K~ 45.Qxg6... (b) 45...Kxg6 46.Kg3... >
Ok, the <46...h6!> ... draws it here, I think.> After 47 Kf4 how would they proceed?
If 47..Kf6 48 h5 ...>
From f6 and e6, Black K holds the line of defense :
48...Ke6 49.g3 (best try) Kf6 50.g4 Ke6! 51.g5 hxg5+ 52.Kxg5 Kf7 ... ==. Still, well worth playing all the way till the very end, I say. The draw is tenuous and requires Black best defense. (It seems that Black h-pawn must neither stay at h7, nor advance to h5. In the former case, there is not enough room for Black king to maneuver; in the latter case, the pawn's flank becomes too exposed. Only with the pawn on h6, Black apparently manages to just hold.) |
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Jul-21-09
| | YouRang: <OhioChessFan: <What if black avoids this check with <42...Ke8!?>?> How about 43. Qh5+ Kd7 44. f7>
Well, <43.Qh5+!? Kd7> is interesting. :-) I think that after 44.f7, black plays 44...Ke7 and I don't see how to make progress (it's hard for our queen to attack while it's busy guarding a pawn -- and unfortunately, black's Q guards Ph6). However, maybe instead we can try <44.Qf7+ Kd6 45.Kg3> (guarding against checks at h4 and f4) [diagram]
click for larger view
Is there any hope in this position? Or is in just another of among thousand ways that our attack fizzles because our king is too exposed? |
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Jul-21-09
 | | Chessgames Challenge:
34...Rxe1+
FINAL VOTE RESULTS:
| 34...Rxe1+ |
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14 | votes |
(87.5%) |
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total # of votes: 16
draw requests: 2 (12.5%)
click for larger view
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Jul-21-09
| | Chessgames Challenge:
34...Rxe1+
click for larger view
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Jul-21-09
 | | blue wave: Of course, 35.Qxe1. It would be nice to blitz this move to speed it up a bit. Ho hum. |
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Jul-21-09
| | plang: <blue wave: Of course, 35.Qxe1. It would be nice to blitz this move to speed it up a bit. Ho hum.> Still, I think we should talk about it. |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 148 OF 182 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
