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|Mar-27-09|| ||beenthere240: <whiteshark> As noted above, 18. Qg4 apparently leads to a draw or at best a complicated attack, whereas 18. Qe4 shuts the door with a double mate threat.|
|Mar-27-09|| ||Jimfromprovidence: 16…e5 is an excellent defensive resource for black. The complications of the position after this move make for a Friday-level puzzle. |
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This move blocks the a1-h8 diagonal, protects the g pawn and forces white to spend a tempo to move his now-threatened rook.
<agb2002> reviews this position in detail. He suggests: <C) 16... e5 17.Rh6 (17.Nxe5 Bf5 looks unclear because the KR is under attack and the white king is on an open file now) and White has a healthy pawn and a very dangerous attack. For example, 17... Bf5 18.O-O-O (threatening Rdh1 and Nxe5) Nb4 19.Bxf5 Rxf5 20.Nxe5 Re8 21.Rh8+ Kxh8 22.Nf7+ Kh7 23.Rh1+ Rh5 24.Rxh5+ gxh5 25.Qxh5+ .>
<agb2002> <The moves 18 and 19 in my line C) are in the wrong order.>
After 16...e5 17 Rh6 Bf5 also worth considering is is 18 Be4, threatening Bxc6, double-attacking black’s e pawn.
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If 18...Bxe4 19 Qxe4 is strong for white, but there is still plenty of work to do.
|Mar-27-09|| ||muralman: That was a really thought provoker, straightforward, and I took it all the way. Like usual, I take a while to warm up, every week, and missed the first three, then hit the last two.|
|Mar-27-09|| ||Utopian2020: Refusing the sacrifice and playing 16...e5 is black's best option. If 17. Nxe5 Bf6 18. Nxc6 Bxb2 19. Rh6 Qxc6 20. Rxg6+ Qxg6 21. Bxg6 Bxa1. It would be Q + B vs R + R + B + B with Black's king in the open, so white is ahead, but must not make any mistakes.|
|Mar-27-09|| ||whiteshark: <beenthere240> That's for the reminder! :D|
|Mar-27-09|| ||Zzyw: I wonder what posessed black to play 11...g6.|
|Mar-27-09|| ||onesax: Kind of crazy, but here goes:
16. Rxh7 Kxh7 (what else? Rg7+ is threatened) 17. Ng5+!
With three replies:
1) 17. ... Bxg5 18. Qh5+! (the point of luring the king to h7 - the g6 pawn is pinned) and 19. Qxg6 follows.
2) 17. ... Kg8 18. Qh5!! white ignores the pawn on g6! Now he threatens both Qh7# and Qxg6#. The only move that stops this both is 18. ... gxh5, which opens up the diagonal for 19. Bh7#!
3) 17. ... Kh6 (the toughest defence, one it took me a couple minutes to crack, but I think...) 18. Qe4 does the trick. This threatens 19. Qxg6# again ... and if black tries to defend the g6-pawn, the queen swings over to h4 to deliver the coup de grace seeing as the knight on g5 blocks the diagonal of black's dark-squared bishop beautifully :) (for example 18. ... Ne5 19. Qh4+ Kg7 20. Qh7+ Kf6 21. Qxg6#!) This only leaves 18. ... Kxg5 as the defensive option, I think this loses to 19. Qxg6+ Kh4 (Kf4? 20. Qg3#) 20. Qh6+ Kg4 21. f3+ Rxf3 (Kg3 22. Qh3+ Kf4 23. Qg4#) 22. gxf3+ and I've been struggling over this variation for many minutes, also looked at 20. g3+ which also *feels* like it wins, but I'm not sure ...
TBH the lines look so good, and all but one I can find the forced win and in the other I'm sure I could given more time, I'd play it OTB :)
Boy I sure hope I didn't miss anything, especially if its obvious :P
|Mar-27-09|| ||Samagonka: Very good puzzle. I saw the rook sacrifice and thought white would then castle and bring the other rook to finish off the game by delivering mate in the h-file.|
|Mar-27-09|| ||GreenFacedPatzer: I looked at a bunch of possibilities, including the text rook sac, but I couldn't make it work. To me, the critical move (and the hardest to see) was 18 Qh5 --- I was looking at several possible mating patterns, but didn't see the pretty one which follows when black takes the queen.|
I decided that if I was playing in this position, I'd castle queen-side and try to get both rooks in on the action. I'd score myself 20% on this puzzle; I saw the first few moves and the general theme, but not the precise kill on move 18.
|Mar-27-09|| ||WhiteRook48: This is the first time I got a Friday puzzle!
16. Rxh7!! Kxh7 17 Ng5+ Kg8
<17...Bxg5 18 Qh5>
18 Qh5 threatening 19 Qh7# and crushing Black
<18...gxh5 19 Bh7#>
|Mar-27-09|| ||SamAtoms1980: <johnlspouge: <[Here, I went for 18.Qg4 Qf4 19.Nf7+ Qxf7 20.Qh3+, with a perpetual check, missing 18.Qe4, which Toga says wins handily.]>>|
18 ... Qf4 indeed escaped my notice. The best White can do is draw the game. I also didn't see 18 Qe4 Kxg5 19 Qxg6+ which reckons quickly.
<Jimfromprovidence: <(17.Nxe5 Bf5 looks unclear because the KR is under attack and the white king is on an open file now)>>
17 Nxe5 Bf5 18 Rh8+!! Kxh8 19 Nf7+ and the double check wins the queen.
<Utopian2020: <If 17. Nxe5 Bf6 18. Nxc6 Bxb2 19. Rh6 Qxc6 20. Rxg6+ Qxg6 21. Bxg6 Bxa1.>>
This is the show-stopper we should be worried about. I had 17 Nxe5 Bf6 18 Bxg6 Bxe5 and it becomes a grimy position with White trying to cap his attack.
|Mar-27-09|| ||ruzon: I saw that 18. ♕h5+ could be played with the Black king on h7, but I did not see that it could still be played with the king on g8.|
|Mar-27-09|| ||morfishine: At least I got Rxh7|
|Mar-27-09|| ||butilikefur: Hey zb2cr, I haven't posted much here and don't yet know the formatting very well.|
After 16. Rxh7 Bf6 17. Qe4, as has been mentioned above, White looks to be winning.
17...Ne7 18. Bxf6 Rxf6 (18...Kxh7 19. Qh4+ Kg8 20. Ne5 [20. Bxe7 Qxd3 21. Bxf8 also looks won] Rxf6 21. Qxf6 Qxd3 [22...Qd4 23. 0-0-0] 22. Qf7+ Kh8 23. Qf8+ Ng8 [23...Kh7 24. 0-0-0] 24. Nf7+ Kh7 25. 0-0-0 looks like mate) 19. Rxe7 Qxe7 20. Qxa8 Rf8 21. Qe4 and White is simply up a piece.
|Mar-27-09|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: I found the game continuation quickly, but in the line 16.Rxh7 Kxh7 17.Ng5+ Kh6, I missed the simple move 18.Qe4! |
Instead I tried to make 18.Qg4 work, but after the best defense 18...Qf4!
19.Nf7+ (19.Qh3+ Kxg5 20.g3? Qxf2+ 21.Kd1 Qg1+ 22.Kc2? Nb4+ backfires badly) Qxf7
white should probably settle for a draw with 20.Qg3+ Kh6 21.Qh3+ Kg5 22.Qg3+.
There are many ways to "play for a loss" in the 18.Qg4 line, e.g.
20.Qh3+ Kg5 21.O-O-O e5 22.Qg3+ Bg4 23.Rh1 Qxf2 and black defends the mate threat on h4.
|Mar-27-09|| ||Jimfromprovidence: These are comments surrounding 16...e5.
<SamAtoms1980> <Jimfromprovidence: <(17.Nxe5 Bf5 looks unclear because the KR is under attack and the white king is on an open file now)>>
<17 Nxe5 Bf5 18 Rh8+!! Kxh8 19 Nf7+ and the double check wins the queen.>
That was the line of <agb2002>, whom I quoted. He likely made a typo and meant 17...Bf6 instead.
<Utopian2020: If 17. Nxe5 Bf6 18. Nxc6 Bxb2 19. Rh6 Qxc6 20. Rxg6+ Qxg6 21. Bxg6 Bxa1.>
<SamAtoms1980> <This is the show-stopper we should be worried about.>
Not so fast on this line. If 17. Nxe5 Bf6 18. Nxc6 Bxb2 19. Rh6 black has 19…Bf5, threatening to pin the queen with Rae8.
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That's why I initially posted that the position after 16...e5 is not easy to evaluate.
|Mar-27-09|| ||beenthere240: It's not uncommon in the classic bishop sacrifice (Bxh7+, Ng5+, Qh5 etc) that the black king coming out to h6 or g6 complicates white's attack, occasionally fatally.
18. Qg4 is dangerous because it looks good -- note how many people just mentioned it as if that was "nuff said." 18. Qe4 is of course much better, but how many people always look for that "better kill" if they think they already have a winner in the bag? This was an outstanding friday puzzle. Very deep. Also should be an inspiration to defenders -- there are often more resouces than one imagines.|
|Mar-27-09|| ||TheBish: T Fogarasi vs N Medvegy, 2003|
White to play (16.?) "Difficult" (3 stars), material even.
Candidate moves: Bxg6, Rxh7, Qe4.
16. Qe4 (threatening 17. Rxh7 Kxh7 18. Qxg6+ and mate next) can be dismissed due to 16...Rf4 and the queen looks silly.
16. Bxg6? hxg6 17. Qe4 Rf5! 18. g4 Qf4! 19. Qxc6 Qxf3 20. Qxf3 (forced) Rxf3 and Black is winning.
This led me to look for something more brilliant, which I suspected was there from the start!
16. Rxh7!! The rook blasts through Black's feeble pawn defenders. The rook apparently needs to be captured, but we'll look at other defenses as well.
A) 16...Kxh7 17. Ng5+! and now:
A1) 17...Bxg5 18. Qh5+ Bh6 (or 18...Kg8 19. Qxg6#) 19. Qxg6 mate.
A2) 17...Kg8 18. Qh5!! and there is no defense to the multiple threats of Qh7#, Qh8# and Qxg6#, since 18...gxh5 allows 19. Bh7 mate. Very pretty!
A3) 17...Kh6 18. Qg4! (threatening 19. Qh4#) Nd4 (or 18...e5 19. Qh4+ Kg7 20. Qh7+ Kf6 21. Qxg6#, or 18...Bxg5 19. Qh3+ Bh4 20. Qxh4#) 19. Qh4+ Kg7 20. Qh7+ Kf6 21. Qxg6+ Ke5 22. Nf3+ Kf4 23. Qg3 mate.
So capturing the rook leads to mate, but White is now threatening both 17. Bxg6 and 17. Rg7+ Kh8 19. Rxe7+, so let's see what else Black can do:
B) 16...Rf5 17. Rg7+ Kf8 18. Bxf5 (18. Rxg6 is not bad either) gxf5 19. Qe3! Nd4 20. Qh6 and Qh8 mate is coming.
C) 16...e5 17. Nxe5 Kxh7 18. Qh5+ Kg8 (or 18...Kg7 19. Nxc6+) 19. Bxg6 and White is mating shortly or Black has to give up material, e.g. 19...Rf7 20. Bxf7+ Kg7 21. Nxc6+ Kf8 22. Bd5 Be6 23. Qh8+ Kf7 24. Ne5+! Qxe5 25. Qxe5 and it's all over but the shouting.
D) 16...Rf6 17. Bxf6 Kxh7 18. Qe4! Qxd3 (forced to stop Qxg6+) 19. Qxd3 Bxf6 20. 0-0-0 and White has won the queen for two bishops.
Time to see how this played out.
|Mar-27-09|| ||beenthere240: Black probably played 11...g6 because she didn't like the look of 12. N(e)g5, where an exchange opens the h file for the rook.|
|Mar-27-09|| ||yogibear: I'm not sure it's as easy as is being portrayed. After 16... e5 17. Nxe5|
either 17...bf5 or 17...bf6 create interesting defenisive options for black. What am I missing?
|Mar-27-09|| ||Oliphaunt: <yogibear>: if 17...Bf5 18.Bxf5 Rxf5 19.Nf7! wins.|
However 17....Bf6 is much tougher... I think 17.Rh6 might be a better idea.
|Mar-27-09|| ||SamAtoms1980: <beenthere240: <It's not uncommon in the classic bishop sacrifice (Bxh7+, Ng5+, Qh5 etc) that the black king coming out to h6 or g6 complicates white's attack, occasionally fatally. 18. Qg4 is dangerous because it looks good -- note how many people just mentioned it as if that was "nuff said.">>|
Indeed ---- had I seen 18 ... Qf4 I might have even tried to force the position with 19 Qh3+?! Kxg5 20 Bg7?! with what looks like a crushing mate threat ---- but I would have gone on to lose after 20 ... Qxf2+ 21 Kd1 Qh4! 22 Qe3+ Rf4! 23 g3 Qh1+ 24 Kc2 Nb4+ 25 Kb2 (25 Kc3?? Qxa1 mate!) Nxd3+ 26 Qxd3 Qxa1+! 27 Kxa1 Bf6+ 28 Bxf6+ Rxf6 and Black is comfortably up in material.
At least I can take comfort in knowing I wouldn't have had to face 17 ... Kh6 over-the-board.
|Mar-27-09|| ||newzild: I really didn't like 11...g6?
Standard wisdom is to avoid making pawn moves in front of your king if you are facing a pawn-storm. Fogarasi must have licked his chops with joy when he saw the g-pawn marching towards his h-pawn.
|Mar-27-09|| ||newzild: Looking at the position again, I think black was worried about 12.Neg5, when 12...h6 loses the exhange to 13.Nh7. But I think 11...f6 or even 11...f5 was a better way of dealing with this threat.|
|Mar-28-09|| ||JG27Pyth: Beautiful... and went right by me, I kept looking a Bxg6 and I could tell it stunk but i couldn't let go.|
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