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Vladimir Kramnik vs Viswanathan Anand
Amber Tournament (Rapid) (2009) (rapid), Nice FRA, rd 8, Mar-22
Nimzo-Indian Defense: Classical Variation (E32)  ·  1/2-1/2


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Kibitzer's Corner
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Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: Judging by both games they played today, something which hasn't changed since the Bonn match is Anand's superior opening preparation.
Mar-22-09  Agent Bouncy: My reason for making the purposely provocative statement that Anand must be scared of Kramnik was to elicit responses to illustrate the double standard so many of the commenters on this site have concerning draws by Kramnik vs draws by others. When Kramnik draws, it's time for condemnation. When others draw, it's time for excuses.
Mar-22-09  chessgeek100: <Agent Bouncy>
Drawnik had white in this game. I'm sure Anand was glad to get the free half point after his crushing victory earlier.

Drawnik sure had his eyes on the prize this game.
A draw

Mar-22-09  Agent Bouncy: Hello, Chessgeek! Thank you for illustrating my point!
Mar-22-09  I Like Fish: hello...
urgent bounce...
what is...
your point...
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <I Like Fish> Yes, the points, if any, made by <Agent Bouncy> and <chessgeek> are obscure and incoherent. As for <urgent bounce>, he/she/it isn't even in the same universe as us. Quantum chess geeks are the new spam.

In cases like this, one can only make inferences from the vocabulary used. "HAHAHAHAHAHA" is sado-hilarity - common among gibbons, bonobos, small boys and the more social type of primate. It seems to be used in the belief that simulating loud laughter while pointing at an enemy will cause others in the group to copy this behavior, and expel the 'enemy' from the tribe.

Some slightly older and more sophisticated primates - the ones with theology and frocks - also use excommunication as a weapon. But they use Latin rather than shrieks of monkey laughter, so they're probably not relevant here.

The other giveaway word is 'drawnik'. Volumes have already been written on the semiotics of 'drawnik' and I don't intend to add to them.

This game on its own is quite amusing, but the kibitzing moves it into the hilarity zone.

Note that it's possible to say something is funny without using the monkey screech. *Lollery*, of course, is even worse.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: I should also point out that this game is almost twice as long as one of the stem games in this line:

[Event "Valenzano Citta di Bari op"]
[Site "Valenzano"]
[Date "2006.01.29"]
[Round "6"]
[White "Laghetti, Gaetano"]
[Black "De Giglio, Michele"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "E36"]
[WhiteElo "1895"]
[BlackElo "1817"]
[PlyCount "16"]
[EventDate "2006.01.21"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "6"]
[EventCountry "ITA"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2006.11.23"]

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.Qc2 O-O 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.Qxc3 d5 7.cxd5 exd5 8.Bg5 Bf5 1/2-1/2

Played at a slightly lower level, admittedly.

Mar-22-09  fromoort: <Domdaniel>There should be an emoticon to denote throwing feces. I'm sure these internet-inhabiting primates would love it.
Mar-22-09  Agent Bouncy: Hello Domdaniel!
I don't know why you say my point (if any) is obscure and incoherent. Did you bother to read my posts? I'll repeat for your edification: for many of the people who comment in the Chessgames forums, there is a double standard. "When Kramnik draws, it's time for condemnation. When others draw, it's time for excuses." Is that point obscure and incoherent?
Mar-22-09  Jim Bartle: It appears the "primates," as fromoort calls them, are less numerous today. I wonder if others have been suspended for a few days, or banned outright.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: Oops. Actually <chessgeek> *does* illustrate <agent bouncy>'s point.

<bouncy> wanted a silly reaction, and he got it. With added monkey noises.

Apologies to <bouncy>, who is neither obscure nor incoherent. Maybe a tad, ah, combative - but the irony makes that acceptable. (According to Miss Quantum Geek Manners, 23rd edition)

Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <fromoort> Dead right. But I caught up eventually.
Mar-22-09  fromoort: <Domdaniel>I deleted my comment - sorry. I figured I shouldn't put words in others' mouths; it's hard enough without expressive emoticons! Glad I read you right though.
Mar-22-09  sheaf: <> Is there a way to filter words like Drawnik just as u filter swear words..its reached a point where it is unbearable and offensive, to say the least..
Mar-23-09  chessgeek100: <Domdaniel> are you the guy from Magyk?
Mar-23-09  acirce: <My reason for making the purposely provocative statement that Anand must be scared of Kramnik was to elicit responses to illustrate the double standard so many of the commenters on this site have concerning draws by Kramnik vs draws by others. When Kramnik draws, it's time for condemnation. When others draw, it's time for excuses.> Should have understood, sorry.
Mar-23-09  anandrulez: Anands preparation versus Kramnik looks good , but overall his opening peperation is not all that good as you saw in Linares ...he hardly did anything impressive in openings. It could help preparing for a match and when you get the same opponent in a tourney , it becomes easier to play him. One cannot draw conclusions on this . I am critical about Anand's opening especially d4 and also he lost a game in Sicilian vs Carlsen in what looked like a dicey opening from Anand .
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: 7...Ne4! is an important novelty by Anand, preventing Bg5 and practically gaining a tempo compared with 7...exd5. A few moves later, after 10...c5! - Nd7 - Ndxc5 (an attempt to hold to the pawn with 12.b4 looks very bad after 12...Qg5) it becomes quite clear that White got nothing, or even less than nothing, from the opening.
Mar-23-09  euripides: <Eyal> <an attempt to hold to the pawn with 12.b4 looks very bad after 12...Qg5> 12...Ne5 is also worth considering- Black threatens 13...Nxd3+ followed by Ng3, and if 13.Bxe4 then Bxe4 is a problem e.g. 14.Qc3 Bxg2 15.Qxe5 Bxh1 16.f3 Re8 (Qh4+ runs into 17.Qg3) 17.Qg3 Qf6 18.Rb1 Qc3+ and Black's attack looks dangerous.

I guess both players must have looked at this possibility in the game continuation as well. After 12.Ne2 Ne5 13.Bxe4 Bxe4 14.Qc3 White may hang on because the Ne5 is attacked and the rook can go to g1, and White could also consider 13.Nf4.

Perhaps White should consider 7.Bg5. I note that in the game at Bonn Anand played in the Classical as White, where he produced a big innovation, he said he had been looking at the lines for Black as well, and he did play the Nimzo in the match, so I guess this may well have been part of his Bonn preparation. It may prove important for the theory of the Classical.

Mar-23-09  euripides: <eyal>... after <12.b4 Qg5> can White stagger on with 13.f4 ? e.g. 13...Qh4+ 14.g3 and if 14...Nxg3 then 15.Nf3. It's not pretty, but Black is a pawn down and needs to convert his initiative into something fairly quickly.
Mar-23-09  euripides: ... one line is 12.b4 Qg5 13.f4 Qh4+ 14.g3 Nxg3 15.Nf3 Qh5 16.Rg1 Bxd3 17.Qxd3 Qxf3 18.hxg3 and Kmoch would be talking about 'leucopenia' or 18.Rxg3 Qh1+ 19.Qf1 Qxh2 and Black's extra pawn should give good winning chances.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: <euripides> Well, after 12.b4 Qg5 13.f4 Qh4+ 14.g3 Nxg3 15.Nf3 Black has already gained back the pawn and probably has the advantage, though the position isn't so clear, really, after e.g. 15...Qh5 16.Rg1 Bxd3 17.Qxd3 Ne4 18.Bb2 Ndf6; Black can also pretty much force a draw if he likes by 17...Qxf3 18.Rxg3 Qh1+ 19.Kf2 Qxh2+ 20.Rg2 Qh4+ 21.Kg1 Qe1+ 22.Kh2 Qh4+ etc.

In case of 12...Ne5, 13.Bb2 is probably best for White who might be ok or even better after 13...Nxd3+ 14.Qxd3 Nxf2 (14...Ng3?? 15.Qd4) 15.Qxf5 Nxh1 16.Nf3/O-O-O.

7.Bg5 and Nf3 are the standard moves for White in this line - 7.cxd5 has hardly been played, in fact (this database features only D Bocharov vs G Gajewski, 2009 and the more extensive chessbase database just a handful of others), and Anand's 7...Ne4 might be pretty much a refutation of it.

Mar-23-09  euripides: <eyal> our posts crossed, but we reach much the same conclusion about 12...Qg5. After <12.b4 Ne5> I had missed the idea of 13.Bb2 Nxd3+ 14.Qxd3 Ng3 15.Qd4! Black can try 14....Qg5 or 14...Qh4 here, e.g. 15.g3 Nxg3 16.Qc3 d4, but perhaps White has 14...Qh4 15.Qe2 or 14...Qg5 15.Qf1. So perhaps 12...Qg5 is better.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <chessgeek> -- <are you the guy from Magyk?>

Many outwardly normal people are from Magyk. They even reproduce - strictly among themselves.

But my status is ambivalent. Like a bivalve.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <chessgeek> The Magyk guy ('The Necromancer and ex-Extraordinary Wizard') spells his name DomDaniel, with a 2nd capital D in the middle. No relation.

*My* 'Domdaniel' is actually an ordinary English word meaning something like "a magician's castle under the sea" ... just like here, I guess.

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