< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Oct-12-09|| ||Jazzer32: ah..true <MaczynskiPratten> and <patzer of patzers>.. I resurrected in my head that Rook on b3 after sacrifice..ehmm|
|Oct-12-09|| ||WhiteRook48: three seconds. Too easy|
|Oct-12-09|| ||Weadley: Why did black not play 21...Qxa4????|
|Oct-12-09|| ||patzer2: <David2009> Thanks for the Crafty link online. After 24...Bg7, I played it out to 25. Rxb7+ Bxb7 26. Qxb7+ Kf6 27. Bh5 Qd2+ 28. Ne2 Rg8 29. Nc5 Kg5 30. Nxe6+ Kh6 31. Qe7 Bb2 32. Qh4 Bd4+ 33. N6xd4 Qg5 34. Qh3 Qxg2+ 35. Qxg2 e3+ 36. Kf3 Rxg2 37. Kxg2 Kxh5 38. Rxf5+ Kh6 39. Kf3 Rg8 40. Rf6+ Kg7 41. Rxa6 Re8 42. Nf5+ Kg8 43. Nxe3 Rf8+ 44. Nf4 . From here, White should win without much difficulty.|
However, neither I or Crafty (at it's quick online speed) are always making the strongest moves. For example, after 24...Bg7, Fritz gives 25. Qc4 as slightly stronger.
P.S.: For those who think this is a simple problem, <David2009> makes a good point that the declined lines after 24. Qxc6!, such as 24...Bg7!?, make winning this "won game" significantly more difficult than a normal "easy Monday" puzzle solution.
|Oct-12-09|| ||patzer2: <Weadley> Apparently Black was afraid of the complications after 21...Qxa4 22. Qxd6+ Kf7 . However, IMO, Black should have took the piece anyway, as it would have given her good winning chances.|
|Oct-12-09|| ||YouRang: Grab, sac and fork -- a theme we've seen a lot of recently. :-)|
|Oct-12-09|| ||kevin86: The knight was there to pick-like an apple from a tree. AND,this is not OZ,where the trees hit back.|
|Oct-12-09|| ||NoTimeToCheck: I'm new to this but has black a better
rely in Qe5...
... as the name suggests, I didn't!
tara for now
|Oct-12-09|| ||beenthere240: My favorite losing line for white is: 24. Qxc6 Bg7 25. Qc5+ (forcing the exchange of queens and hopefully remaining a piece ahead) 25...Qxc5
26. Nxc5 Bxd4+ and oops! now it's Black with the extra piece. |
It's not easy at all after 24...Bg7, when Oz or no Oz, the trees are throwing back.
|Oct-12-09|| ||VincentL: To "claim the full point" here, one must also deal with other responses, notably 24... Bg7 and 24...Bd7.|
Various posters above have explained how to continue against these.
Finally black did not resign straight away, indicating that 24. Qxc6 was not seen as immediately decisive.
|Oct-12-09|| ||zanshin: Shame on me. I missed a Monday puzzle. I thought for sure <24.Rxb7+> would give White a lasting advantage, and that Qxe6+ picks up the Bishop on h6. I should have looked 1-ply deeper because the White Knight on d4 is hanging :-(|
click for larger view
|Oct-12-09|| ||Patriot: <<patzer2>: <Weadley> Apparently Black was afraid of the complications after 21...Qxa4 22. Qxd6+ Kf7 . However, IMO, Black should have took the piece anyway, as it would have given her good winning chances.>|
It looks like both players were thinking the same thing--Qxa4 is dangerous for black! White could have replied 21.Nc3 to save the knight but chose not to. And after 21.Kf2 black chose not to take the knight!
I see variations where white can play 22.Qxd6+ Kf7 23.Ng5+ and it looks a bit dangerous after 23...Bxg5 24.Bh5+ Kg8 25.Rg3 with more to follow. Or maybe 23.Ng5+ Kg8 24.Bh5 and 25.Rg3 lines.
Still the knight would be hard to refuse.
|Oct-12-09|| ||zanshin: <remolino: 24. Qxc6 wins a knight and a pawn but I wonder if that is the move that Rybka would play.>|
Yes, it is ...
[+1.75] d=18 24.Qxc6 Qe5 25.Qc5 Qxc5 26.Nxc5 Rd8 27.c3 Ra7 28.Rfb1 Bg7 29.Nxb7 Bxd4 30.cxd4 Rxd4 31.Nc5 Rd2 32.Rc1 Rc7 33.Rh3 h5 34.a4 Bd7 35.Rxh5 Kd6 36.Rh7 (0:24.07) 174590kN
|Oct-12-09|| ||dzechiel: <Jmas: Since White captures a pawn, Black comes out with only one pawn for the knight. Still probably play-on-able though IMO.>|
I didn't word this very well. What I had intended to say is that if black did not capture the white queen (as happened in the game), that black would then have two pawns for the piece, and should probably play on (as happened in the game).
|Oct-12-09|| ||turbo231: Why didn't i see the fork?|
|Oct-12-09|| ||tivrfoa: I think 24. Rxb7 also wins a piece. But Qxc6 is better.|
|Oct-12-09|| ||chrisowen: Bagging Qxc6 it was the first move I got in sequinse but dazzled by black's response I wonder whether Nb6 stitches him up even further. Probably not as white leather's it kicking the black queen around winning the black rook. The fabric of white's play's sound perhaps Qd2 is just schmaltz.|
|Oct-12-09|| ||wals: I went for the inferior Rxb7.
Lilit Mkrtchian - Marina Romanko, 10th European Individual Women's Champio 2009
Analysis by Rybka 3 1-cpu: ply 17 time 31 min 40
1. (1.79): 24.Qxc6 Qe5 25.Qc5+ Qxc5 26.Nxc5 Rd8 27.c3 Ra7 28.Rfb1 Bg7 29.Nxb7 Bxd4+ 30.cxd4 Rxd4 31.Nc5 Rd2 32.Rc1 Rc7 33.Rh3 h6 34.a4 Rb2 35.Rhc3 Bd7 36.Nxe4 Rxc3 37.Nxc3 Kd6 38.Rd1+ Ke7
2. (0.38): 24.Rxb7+ Bxb7 25.Qxe6+ Kd8 26.Nxc6+ Kc7 27.Qxe8 Qb6+ 28.Nxb6 Rxe8 29.Na5 Kxb6 30.Rb1+ Kxa5 31.Rxb7 Re6 32.Rxh7 Kb4 33.Ra7 Kc3 34.Rxa6 Rxa6 35.Bxa6 Kxc2 36.Ke2 Kc3 37.Bc8 Kd4
|Oct-12-09|| ||NoTimeToCheck: ooh, does that make my earlier suggestion for black reasonable!|
|Oct-12-09|| ||Athamas: Before I actually counted material I saw the initial move. Black is up 2 pawns. Both kings are a little precarious... black's seems a little more so. White is much more developed and controls most of the board with the pieces while black tries to control it with his pawn advantage.|
Black cannot accept the queen without being down a clear knight for pawn. Bd7 seems natural but bad after Rxb7. I see black's best response as attacking the centralized knight, either with the queen or bishop. With the queen allows a queen trade or white to bring his a4 knight back into play immediately. So lets try the bishop.
Two options seem to be Qc4 or Rxb7... however it's Monday so I'm going with the obvious to hold onto the material advantage and say I solved it.
|Oct-12-09|| ||King.Arthur.Brazil: There are many possibilities, although 24.Qxc6 bxc6 25.Nxc6+ appear a little evident, and I chose it. In my head I think Black had on 25...Bg7, Qe5, Qd2 and Qd5. Bg7 seems much complicated to define what will hapen. Qe5 Qc5+ and final, with a N less. Qd2 had Qc5+ then Nb6 and Nxc8. I think Qd5 after Qxd5 Qxd5 give better P structure for Black in the final. After 27.Nc4 end, the double attack Q and Rb8 on Qe5+ had no deffense.|
|Oct-12-09|| ||chillowack: <goodevans: And then there�s 24 ... Bg7!
Trying to maintain a winning advantage against this move is hideously difficult.>
I don't see what's so difficult about it: 25.Rb7+ Bb7 26.Qb7+ Kf8 27.Ne6+ Re6 28.Qa8+ and White wins.|
Or 25.Rb7+ Kf8 26.Qc5+ Kg8 27.Rb4 and White is fine.
If 25.Rb7+ Bb7 26.Qb7+ Kf6 then White is up material and Black's king is in a wretched position.
Therefore I don't think 24...Bg7 deserves an exclam.
|Oct-12-09|| ||RandomVisitor: 21...Qxa4 22.Qxd6+ Kf7 23.Nd4 Kg8 24.Bh5 Bf8 25.Bxe8 Qxe8 26.Qc7 Nd7 27.Rg3+ Kh8 28.Rd1 Qe7 29.Nb3 a5 now scores -0.73/21|
|Oct-16-09|| ||Formula7: 24.Qxc6! bxc6 25.Nxc6+ followed by 26.Nxa5.|
|Oct-19-09|| ||LIFE Master AJ: <<patzer2> P.S.: Earlier, can't Black get away with taking White's piece sacrifice offer after 21...Qxa4? It gets complicated following 22. Qxd6+ Kf7 23. Nd4 Kg8 (or 23...Bf8 ), but if Black can survive the complications it would appear she might have had excellent winning chances with 21...Qxa4!>|
Better was: 21...Qxa4; 22.Qxd6+ Kf7; 23.Nd4 Bf8; 24.Bh5+ Kg8; 25.Bxe8 Qxe8; 26.Rg3+ Kh8; 27.Qb6 Bd7; and Black is clearly much better, however, a forced win for Black is not immediately in the cards.
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