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Arvid Sundin vs Erik Andersson
"The Immortal Correspondence Game" (game of the day Jun-22-12)
ICCF WT/M/974 (1964)  ·  French Defense: Winawer. Petrosian Variation (C16)  ·  1-0
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find similar games 16 more games of A Sundin
sac: 25.Ng5 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jun-22-12  Dr. J: This is pretty, but I don't find it terribly impressive: Black puts all his pieces on the Queen-side, and his King on the already-compromised King-side, so what would you expect to happen? I imagine most grandmasters would find White's combination even in blitz.
Jun-22-12  Ratt Boy: Here's that Swedish stamp, for the curious:
http://www.tri.org.au/chess/SwedenG...
Jun-22-12  LoveThatJoker: <Ratt Boy> Good post!

LTJ

Jun-22-12  Ratt Boy: rogl: <DanielBryant: So does Harding's analysis as mentioned above completely bust White?> No, but it will result in a drawish endgame.

Yes, drawish, as for e.g., 25...Qe8 26.Bg7 h5 27.gh5 gh5 28.Qc4 dc4 29.f7+ Qf7+ 30.Nf7 Kg7 31.Nd6 Rh8 32.Rbg1+ Kf8 33.Rg5 h4 34.Rf1 h3?? (Passed pawns must be pushed!) 35.Ke2+ Ke7 36.Rf7+ Kd8 37.Rgg7... oh, dear.

Jun-22-12  TheTamale: Um, I'm sorry, but if this were really the immortal correspondence game, wouldn't they still be playing it???
Jun-22-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  maxi: Very nice example of a particular mode of attack based on the White f and h Pawns and the h file Rook.
Jun-22-12  psmith: <Ratt Boy> Here is a fascinating possibility found with the help of Fritz 5.32: 25...Qe8 26. Qxc4 dxc4 27. Rbg1!? This leads to complications.... which seem to lead to a draw with best play, anyway, but are better analyzed with a more powerful engine than I have access too.
Jun-22-12  The HeavenSmile: final position


click for larger view

Andersson is up 26 points worth of material! Its always fun when you can mate someone with so many more pieces then you

Jun-22-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: Am I correct that the best conclusion would be:29...Rxf8 30 Bc1+(to block the new queen from Qxh1) Kg7 31 Rh7#.

Four queens in the game and white mates with castle and horse (Arabian style)

Jun-22-12  newzild: Cool game. White decided as early as move 23 to give up his queen and go hard with the remaining pieces. Stirring stuff!
Jun-22-12  rilkefan: Hmm, I don't find this especially spectacular given that it's correspondence.

For what it's worth, a cursory look with stockfish suggests 25.Bg7 as winning, as ...Qe8 doesn't help here.

Jun-22-12  rilkefan: Playing over the game I was a bit surprised that black moved away the f8 rook. I'm not sure whether 21...a5 saves a useful tempo over the game, but I think so. Anyway stockfish is saying that black's equal with ...b5 and ...g5 (after h5).
Jun-22-12  capanegra: I thought that the immortal correspondence game was N Johansson vs R Rey Ardid, 1933. But certainly, this one is also truly sparkling.
Jun-22-12  WhiteRook48: That was interesting - correspondence games usually aren't brilliancies.
Jun-22-12  Mate Hunter: <kevin86>

29...Rxf8 30.Bg7+ Kxg7 31.Rh7# is equivalent, but more beautiful.

Jun-22-12  YoungEd: Forgive a basic question here, but what are the ideas behind 4...Qd7? I see it's fairly popular in the database (317 games), but I don't see the point. What am I missing?
Jun-22-12  vsiva1: 29. ...Rxf8. 30.Bg5+ Kg7. 31. Rh7#
Jun-22-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  maxi: Hi, <YoungEd>. The idea behind 4...Qd7 is to answer 5.Dg4 with 5...f5.
Jun-22-12  apiana: the idea is not 28 Bg5+, this would lead to QxRh1, but rather bc3+, followed by kgz, rh7'
Jun-22-12  apiana: or bg7+ of course
Jun-22-12  Amarande: (Post-resignation) 30 Bc1+ is simply a lovely retrograde blocking manoeuvre :)

A great game. (I, myself, have always had different thoughts on the Correspondence Immortal - my pick would be Gonzalez vs Perrine, 1943)

Jun-22-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: 11...Qb7 looks awful. He uses a tempo in the opening to bury the Queen behind a wall of Pawns, ties her majesty to the support of a misplaced Knight, and allows a future White Queen excursion on to b5. Other than that, it was a swell move.
Jun-23-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: <Boomie: <FSR: I'm not sure the human has to know anything about chess anymore.>

Centaur is a different game than pure CC.

The human still has a lot of work to do. Check out The World Team games. There wouldn't be thousands of pages of analysis if all we did was follow the engines. Plus even with an overwhelming advantage in engine power, it was all we could do to draw against some of our opponents.>

Excellent points. No doubt you are right. Maybe for ICCF play, where all the players are supposed to be strong anyway, it makes more sense than I thought. But as you say, it's a totally different game from traditional correspondence chess. Anyone who owns a strong program or two starts out at 2400+ strength, and will never play a gross blunder, whether or not he knows anything about chess. But you could say that if one is seeking the <truth> in chess, you'll get it a lot faster if you're aided by computers than if humans are left to their own devices.

Jun-24-12  YoungEd: Thanks, <maxi>. I see it now. :)
Jun-27-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  maxi: Sure, <YoungEd>. In many of these variations of the French where White has a Pawn in e5 the placing of the White Queen in g4 applies a very unpleasant pressure on g7. Playing g6 weakens Black King side very much and often allows h4 with attack. Hence you often see Black playing Qc7 or Qd7.
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