< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Sep-07-12|| ||therevolver17: Didn't get it :(.
22.Bb5! very nice move
|Sep-07-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: Cool! A GM Naiditsch puzzle!
<16. Nf6+ gxf6>
(16...Kh8 17. Nxd7 )
<17. exf6 Ne6>
[17...Ne4 18. Qh6 Nxf6 19. Qg5+ Kh8 20. Qxf6+ Kg8 and here at the very least, White has 21. Rxd7 Qxa2 22. Rh3! Qa1+ 23. Kd2 Qa5+ 24. c3 f4 25. Bd3 Nb4 (25...Qa2 26. Qf5 Qxb2+ 27. Bc2 ) 26. Bxh7+ Kxh7 27. Ng5+ Kg8 28. Nxf7 ]
<18. Qh6> 1-0 as the execution of White's upcoming Ng5 will overwhelm Black both on g7 and h7.
|Sep-07-12|| ||dfcx: I could not beat Crafty.
Here we go:
16. Nf6+ gxf6
But 17...f4! frees up the Q.
18. Qxf4 Ne6
19. Qh6 Nb4
20. Ng5 Qf5!
I can't win from here!
|Sep-07-12|| ||James D Flynn: Material is equal, Black is slightly ahead in development . Both Ks face some danger because the developed pieces for each side are concentrated on the sideof the opposing K, but the pawns sheltering them are intact. The Black Q is threatening to take the White a pawn, a threat that is easily met by Kb1, a3 or the developing move Bc4.
16.Nf6+ Kh8(if gxf6 17.exf6 (and the threat of mate in 2 leaves no time for Qxa2) Ne6 18.Bc4 Kh8(if Rd8 19.Bxe6 fxe6(or Bxe6 20.Qg5+ Kf8 21.Qg7+ Ke8 22.Qg8#) 20.Qg5+ Kf8 21.Qg7 Ke8 22.Qg8#) 20.Qh6 Rg8 21.Ng5 Nxg5 22.hxg5 and there is no answer to the threat of 23.Qxh7#) 17.Nxd7 Rfd8 (if Qxa2 18.Qa3 Qxa3 19.bxa3 Nxd7 20.Rxd7 and White is a piece up for a P in the endgame)18.Qxc5 Qxa2 19.Qa3 Qe8 20.Bc4 and White is 2 pieces up and fully developed.|
|Sep-07-12|| ||sevenseaman: Playing Crafty against Crafty I went some distance with the 17...f4 line. After |
16. Nf6+ gxf6 17. exf6 f4 18. Qxf4 Ne6 19. Qg4+ Kh8
20. Rxd7 Qxa2 21. Qh5 Qa1+ 22. Kd2 Qa5+ 23. Qxa5 Nxa5 24. Re7 Nf4 25. b4 Nc6 26. Rxb7 Rad8+ 27. Kc1 Rd6 28. Rb6 Nd5 this is what I got;
click for larger view
To me White looks a little better. With White to move anyone interested can use the following links for further investigation.
http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t... with Crafty playing Black
http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t..., with Crafty playing White.
|Sep-07-12|| ||doubledrooks: I saw the game line from 16. Nxf6+ through 21. bxc3. However, I missed the defense starting with 17...f4.|
|Sep-07-12|| ||kevin86: Sadly,blacks knight is overworked...being unable to capture white's threatening knight while guarding mate at g7.|
|Sep-07-12|| ||JG27Pyth: After trying the crafty link given earlier by <dfcx> and failing to find a win... I let fritz tackle the crafty endgame trainer... after 10 moves fritz is up a pawn... and it's some 50+ moves to mate!|
|Sep-07-12|| ||JG27Pyth: Well, after playing it thru against crafty 20 or 30 times and falling into every stalemate trap and equalizing combination crafty could deliver, I've learned enough about the position to say the win is really quite clear ;)|
|Sep-07-12|| ||chrisowen: Burying a bone in the backyard a knightf6 to overwhelm the black tide hurtling for a2 with pieces it seem like for an age black couldnt extricate from bind nf6+ gxf6 17.exf6 ne6 18.qh6 although 17...f4 might be a good try of course it sigh won for white after looking at hanging cleric d7 will get gobbled up by rookd1 or ng5 then queen trade and again rookxd7 white advance pawn and rooks it seventh one mop away black hope for equalizing. Key move nf6 pawn exchange queen in and i dont manage to think a5 live dream of grabbing a2 maybe with a knightb4 to follow line might go nb4 19.ng5 nxa2+ king c1 got enough defence via c2 queen give in check at b6 and a wonderful flowing comeback get burnt out in c1 a key it staunch in even bb5! block king check a dilemma again black can only it serial one line bcolomn or bet e3+, no i read in b5 you tie queen too light pattern then mate at f7.|
|Sep-07-12|| ||agb2002: The material is equal.
Black threatens 16... Qxa2.
The black castle looks poorly defended. This suggests 16.Nf6+:
A) 16... gxf6 17.exf6
A.1) 17... Kh8 18.Qh6 Rg8 (18... Ne6 19.Ng5 wins) 19.Ng5 Rxg5 20.hxg5 and mate soon.
A.2) 17... Ne6 18.Qh6
A.2.a) 18... Qxa2 19.Ng5 Qa1+ 20.Kd2 Qa5+ 21.c3 Qd5+ 22.Kc1 + -.
A.2.b) 18... f4 19.Ng5 Nxg5 20.hxg5 Q(B)f5 21.Qg7#.
A.3) 17... Ne4 18.Qh6 Nxf6 19.Qg5+ Kh8 20.Qxf6+ Kg8 21.Rxd7 wins a piece.
B) 16... Kh8 17.Nxd7
B.1) 17... Nxd7 18.Rxd7 Qxa2 19.Qa3 + - [B vs P].
B.2) 17... Qxa2 18.Nxd7 Qa1+ 19.Kd2 Rfd8+ 20.Bd3 + - [B+N vs P].
|Sep-07-12|| ||Patriot: 16.Nf6+ gxf6 17.exf6
17...Ne6 18.Qh6 Qxa2 (18...Kh8 19.Ng5 ) 19.Ng5 Qa1+ 20.Kd2 Qa5+ 21.c3 Qd5+ 22.Kc1
I don't see a defense.
|Sep-07-12|| ||morfishine: Forcing is 16.Nf6+ gxf6 17.exf6 Ne6...but figured <18.Bc4> was the move|
|Sep-07-12|| ||TheBish: Naiditsch vs Hoang Thanh Trang, 1998|
White to play (16.?) "Difficult"
White wins with a crushing knight sacrifice:
16. Nf6+! gxf6
Or 16...Kh8 17. Nxd7 Nxd7 18. Rxd7 Qxa2 19. Qa3! and White is simply up a piece.
17. exf6 Ne6
Offering to give back the piece, in order to defend g7. If 17...Kh8 18. Qh6 Rg8 (...Ne6 is answered by the same move) 19. Ng5 Rxg5 20. hxg5 and mate is unavoidable.
Black is helpless against the coming attack with 19. Ng5 and two mate threats.
18...Rfd8 19. Ng5 Be8 20. Qxh7+ Kf8 21. Qh8#.
Wow, definitely missed the best defense for Black, but White was so winning, he could afford to give away a bishop to stop the perpetual check. Nice finish!
|Sep-07-12|| ||TheBish: Actually, there was no perpetual after all. White could have played 22. Kc1 Qe3+ 23. Rd2 Qe1+ 24. Kb2!, and Black is out of checks and can't stop mate, even by sacrificing his queen one move earlier (23...Qxg5 24. hxg5 Rfd8 25. Qxh7+ Kf8 26. Qh8#.|
|Sep-07-12|| ||JG27Pyth: The defensive resource the engines find and which nearly all the kibitzers seem to miss is 17...f4! after which white can win back his piece and be up a pawn + a winning positional edge but there is no middle game mate to be had.|
|Sep-07-12|| ||Dr. J: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...|
I won as follows: 17 Nf6+ gxf6 18 exf6 f4 19 Qxf4 Ne6 20 Qh6 Nb4 (Not forced. I have no idea if it is best.) 21 a3 Rfd8 (Ditto.) 22 Nd4 Qc7 23 axb4 Qf4+ 24 Qxf4 Qxf4 25 c3 Bg4 26 Re1 h5 27 g3 Ne6 28 Nxe6 gxf6 29 Be2 Bxe2 30 Rxe2 Kf7 31 Re5 Rd5 32 Rxd5 exd5 33 Rf1 Ke6 34 Kd2 Rg8 35 f7 Rf8 36 Ke3 Rxf7 37 Rxf7 Kxf7 38 Kf4 Kf6 39 g4 and the win is certain. I mated in 25 more moves.
|Sep-07-12|| ||francis2012: This is my answer in this puzzle:
1. ♘xf6+! gxf6 (force move, ♔h8 results of losing of black bishop at d7) 2. exf6 f4 (to prevent ♕g5+) 3. ♕xf4 ♘e6 (to prevent ♕g5+) 4. ♕h6 ♘b4 (to prevent ♗d3) 5. ♘g5 (the winning move, so black try to counterattack with following line) ♘xa2+ 6. ♔b1 ♘c3+ 7. bxc3 ♕b6+ 8. ♗b5! (♔c1 ♕d3+ 9. ♖d2 ♕e1+ 10. ♔b2) ♕xb5+ 9. ♔c1 and now black's counterattack is stop, the mate of his ♔ is unavoidable, White threats ♕xh7+#, if black take the white's knight 9. ...♘xg5 10. ♕g7+#, if black sac his queen 9. ... ♕xg5+ 10. hxg5 (opening the rook h-file and Δ ♕xh7+#, if black move his rook in f-file, e.g. 10. ... ♖fe8/♖fd8/♖fc8/♖fb8 11. ♕xh7+ ♔f8 12. ♕h8+#) mate is still unavoidable.
so, no matter what Black's answer to White's move Nf6+! is still White will wins!
|Sep-07-12|| ||Tiggler: After the excitement of the Olympiad today, I came to this puzzle only just before it will disappear and be replaced by tomorrow's. Nevertheless, I think I got most of it, though I have yet to read the other posts, which doubtless will reveal wrinkles that I missed. In the game score, one one such wrinkle: I missed the clever 22. Bb5. I don't think it matters, because 22. Kc1 also seems to win in a similar fashion, though maybe a move or two more.|
It seemed to me one of those positions that plays itself: at each step up to the one I mentioned, only one move will do. So now I'll read to other posts to find all the nuances I missed.
|Sep-08-12|| ||Tiggler: <master of defence: Interesting note that white must play 22.Bb5, if 22.Kc1? Qe3+ and black have more chances to fight.>|
Really? 23. Rd2 Qe1+ 24. Kb2, then what?
|Sep-08-12|| ||Tiggler: <Al Wazir> already posted my last line: I am just working my way through them still.|
|Sep-08-12|| ||M.Hassan: "Difficult"
White to move 16.?
It is not difficult to see that g7 square is the critical square and that pawn and Queen combo can bring mate:
Black put obstacles on the way of Queen towards g file
<if 19.Qxf5 Nb3+ and White Queen is captured>
<if 19.Qg5+ Bg6 20.Qh6 Ne6 protecting g7 square>
White succeeds to hide the King from check. Black can take the h Rook and then it will be White's turn to attack which is devastating.
Time to check
My line is different but equally effective.
|Sep-08-12|| ||Tiggler: I saw Fritzy's move 17. ... f4, as reported by <Once>, but inexplicably missed 18. ... Ne6. I only looked at 18. ... Nb3+ and Nd3+. Nevertheless, two pawns is a substantial advantage here, particularly since white can be the one to chose to force the queens off with 20. Ng5 or 20.g4|
|Sep-08-12|| ||Tiggler: <dfcx: I could not beat Crafty.> Well, take heart: hardly anyone can with less than rook odds in most non-trivial endgames.|
|Sep-08-12|| ||Tiggler: Apart from <Once>'s Fritz, I noticed that the following appeared to have found the critical 17. ... f4 move: <sevenseamen> <dfcx> <francis2012> and <M.Hassan> comprise the honor roll. Apologies to any others that I may have overlooked.|
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