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Team White vs Team Black
"Black and White and Read All Over" (game of the day Jul-27-10)
Battle of the Brains (2009)  ·  Semi-Slav Defense: Stoltz Variation. Shabalov Attack (D45)  ·  0-1
To move:
Last move:

explore this opening
find similar games 9 more Team White/Team Black games
sac: 18...Rxg5 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 235 OF 235 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Aug-08-10  capafan: <kutz>Maybe we will never be given a line by the computers that will bestow upon us that aha! moment. <zanshin> is probably correct in that we should not try to overanalyze the issue of 17...Rg8, but suffice it to say that it gives humans and computers both difficulty because of the temptation to take black's b-pawn, which QED is poison.
Aug-08-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  AgentRgent: <capafan: another <better> try for black may have been to mix it up in the center with 9...e4 before white has an opportunity for g5.> I'm not sure that 9...e4 really gains black much other than future liabilities e.g. either backward d pawn after cxd cxd or an isolated e pawn after an eventual ...dxc by black.

Interestingly enough I could find only one game with that continuation (Rout v Wood, Belconnen AUS 1996 1-0). I think that 10. Nh4 with thoughts of Nf5 or Ng2 & Nf4 after provoking the weakening ...g6 are sufficient to give white a slight advantage although there's certainly a lot of game left.

<I would be curious as to what <zsyodd> has in his database for CC games with this continuation.> As would I.

Aug-08-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  kutztown46: After 20...Rg6


click for larger view

Analysis by Stockfish 1.8 JA 64bit (28/29-ply):

1. = (0.20): 21.Be2 Be6 22.Bd3 Bg4 23.Qg2 Bf5 24.Qc2 Bg3+ 25.Kd1 Bg4+ 26.Be2 Bxe2+ 27.Qxe2 Rc8 28.Rf1 Qc7 29.Kc2 Nd5 30.Bd2 Nb4+ 31.Kb1 Bh4 32.Ra3 Qc6 33.e4 Bg5 34.Be3 Qc4 35.Qxc4 Rxc4 36.Bg1 h5

2. = (0.16): 21.Bd3 Bg4 22.Qg2 Bf5 23.Qc2 Bg3+ 24.Kd1 Bg4+ 25.Be2 Bxe2+ 26.Qxe2 Rc8 27.Rf1 Qc7 28.Kc2 Nd5 29.Bd2 Nb4+ 30.Kb1 Bh4 31.Ra3 Qc6 32.e4 Bg5 33.Be3 Qc4 34.Qxc4 Rxc4 35.Bg1 Ke7 36.Nb5 Rc1+

3. = (0.00): 21.Kd2 Bg4 22.Qf2 Bb4 23.Bd3 Rf6 24.Qh4 h5 25.Be2 Rg6 26.Qxd8+ Rxd8 27.Kd3 Bf5+ 28.Kd2 Bg4

4. (-0.40): 21.Qe4 Qc7 22.Bd3 Bg4 23.Qg2 f5 24.Rg1 Kg7 25.Bd2 Bb4 26.Nd1 Rg5 27.Qf2 Qe7 28.Nc3 Rc8 29.Qf4 Bd6 30.Qf2 Nc4 31.Bxc4 Rxc4

===

5. (-0.36): 21.Bb5 Bg4 22.Qf2 Qc7 23.Ne4

6. (-0.44): 21.Bh3 Bb4 22.Rf1 Qc7 23.e4 Bxh3 24.Qxh3 Kg8 25.Bd2 Rc8 26.d5 Re8

This does little to resolve the 21. Be2 vs. 21. Bd3 debate.

It is interesting, however, that we had

(0.64/33): 20.Qf3 Rg3 21.Qf2 Rg6 22.Kd2 Bg3 23.Qf3

then

(0.36/29): 20...Rg6 21.Bd3 Bg4 22.Qf2 Rf6 23.Qh4 h5 24.Be2 Rg6 25.Bxg4 Qxh4+ 26.Rxh4 Bg3+ 27.Ke2 Bxh4 28.Bxh5 Rg1 29.b3 Ke8 30.Kd3 Nd7 31.Bf3 Rd8 32.Nd5 Nb8 33.Bb2 Rxa1 34.Bxa1 f5 35.Nf4 Nc6 36.Ne6

and then the lines and evals shown for white's 21st move. The evals are getting less and less favorable for white and the poisoned pawn at b7 seems to have nothing to do with it.

Aug-08-10  capafan: <AgentRgent>< I think that 10. Nh4 with thoughts of Nf5 or Ng2 & Nf4 after provoking the weakening ...g6 are sufficient to give white a slight advantage although there's certainly a lot of game left.>

I did not have g6 in mind but Nb8 instead.

9...e4
10.Nh4 Nb8
11.cxd5 cxd5
12.Qb3 Bc7
13.Nf5 Bxf5
14.gxf5 Bb6
15.Bg2 Nc6
16.f3 exf3
17.Bxf3 Ne7


click for larger view

White is fully developed but castling is tricky as yet, same could be said of black....but again that is the nature of the opening. Slight edge to white, but as you said, still no major weaknesses and a lot of play for both sides. You might have improvements for white...I will see what Shredder/Houdini/Rybka have to say.

Aug-08-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  AgentRgent: <capafan: I did not have g6 in mind but Nb8 instead.

9...e4
10.Nh4 Nb8
11.cxd5 cxd5
12.Qb3 Bc7
13.Nf5 Bxf5>

Instead of 14. gxf5 doesn't white have the strong intermezzo 14. Qxb7!? Nbd7 and then 15. gxf5 follows?

I think 13...Rg8 is required which means black's king is going to have trouble finding safety on either side of the board (or in the center for that matter).

Aug-09-10  capafan: <AgentRgent>< AgentRgent: <capafan: I did not have g6 in mind but Nb8 instead.

9...e4
10.Nh4 Nb8
11.cxd5 cxd5
12.Qb3 Bc7
13.Nf5 Bxf5>

Instead of 14. gxf5 doesn't white have the strong intermezzo 14. Qxb7!? Nbd7 and then 15. gxf5 follows?>

Alas, you are correct and the silicon monsters do not approve of my 8...e5 9.Bd2 e4 either. (Although, to my dismay, I did note that <DanLanglois> also liked 8...e5 in answer to 8.h3. :)

The Shredder Online DB gives this instead:

8.h3 dxc4
9.Bxc4 b5
10.Be2 Bb7
11.e4 b4
12.Na4 Be7
13.Be3 c5
14.Nxc5 Bxc5
15.dxc5 Bxe4
16.Qc4 Qc7


click for larger view

Even, but a much easier game for white IMHO compared to 8.Rh1 as all the pressure is on black.

Aug-10-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  kutztown46: After 21...Bg4


click for larger view

Analysis by Stockfish 1.8 JA 64bit (32-ply):

1. = (0.00): 22.Qxb7 Rb8 23.Qe4 Be6 24.Rf1 Kg8 25.Bd3 Bh3 26.Rxf7 Rg1+ 27.Rf1 Bxf1 28.Qh7+ Kf8 29.Qxh6+ Ke7 30.Qh7+ Kf8 31.Qf5+ Kg7 32.Qh7+ Kf8

2. = (0.00): 22.Qe4 Bxe2 23.Kxe2 Qc8 24.d5 Rg4 25.Rxh6 Rxe4 26.Rh8+ Ke7 27.Rxc8 Rxc8 28.Nxe4 Be5 29.Bd2 Nxd5 30.Bxa5 Rc2+ 31.Kd3 Rxb2 32.Rh1 Ra2 33.Rb1 Ra3+ 34.Kd2 Rxa4 35.Rxb7+ Kf8 36.Rb5 Rxe4 37.Rxd5 Ke7

3. = (-0.20): 22.Qf2 Bxe2 23.Kxe2 Qc8 24.Kd1 Bb4 25.Rf1 Qc4 26.Qe2 Qb3+ 27.Qc2 Qe6 28.Qf5

4. (-1.01): 22.Qg2 Bxe2 23.Qxe2 Rc8 24.Qd3 Bb4 25.e4 Qd6 26.Rf1 Rg3 27.Bxh6+ Ke7 28.e5 Qxe5+ 29.Qe2 Qe6 30.Qxe6+ Kxe6 31.Kf2 Rcg8 32.Rae1+ Kd7 33.Rb1 R8g6 34.Bf4 Rh3 35.Ke2 f5

At 32-ply, Stockfish sees no danger in taking the b7 pawn.

Aug-10-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  AgentRgent: <kutztown46> Although Stockfish deviates from the game with 24...Kg8 (vs Kg7) it seems to miss 25...Nd5! I wonder what it would say if it were shown that move.
Aug-10-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  kutztown46: <AgentRgent>

I am playing through the entire game with Stockfish, so within the next several days I will have your answer.

Aug-12-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  kutztown46: After 23. Qe4


click for larger view

Analysis by Stockfish 1.8 JA 64bit (31-ply):

1. = (-0.08): 23...Be6 24.Rf1 Kg7 25.Bd2 Nc4 26.0-0-0 Nxb2 27.d5 Bh3 28.Bh5 Qg5 29.Bxg6 fxg6 30.Qd4+ Qe5 31.Nb5 Qxd4 32.exd4 Nxd1 33.Rxd1 Bb4 34.Bxh6+ Kxh6 35.Rh1 g5 36.Rxh3+ Kg6 37.Kc2 g4 38.Re3

2. = (0.00): 23...Nd7 24.Qc2 Bg3+ 25.Kd2 Bxe2 26.Kxe2 Qc8 27.Rf1 Nf6 28.Rb1 h5 29.b3 Bd6 30.Kd1 h4 31.Nb5 Qg4+ 32.Qe2 Qe4 33.Rb2 Bb4 34.Qc4 Qg4+ 35.Qe2 Qe4

3. = (0.00): 23...Bxe2 24.Nxe2 Nc4 25.Rf1 Rf6 26.Nf4 Nxb2 27.Nd5 Rxf1+ 28.Kxf1 Qc8 29.Nf6 Qh3+ 30.Qg2 Qf5+ 31.Qf2 Qh3+ 32.Qg2

4. (0.48): 23...f5 24.Qd3 Kg7 25.Bd2 Qc7 26.Bxg4 fxg4 27.Nb5 Qc6 28.Rh5 Bg3+ 29.Kd1 Qc4 30.Qxc4 Nxc4 31.d5 Be5 32.Ke2 Bxb2 33.Rg1 Nxd2 34.Kxd2 g3 35.Nc7 Rg4 36.d6 Rg6 37.Nd5 Rd8 38.Ke2 Rdxd6 39.Ne7

This is the first point in the middle game where Stockfish gives black an edge.

Aug-12-10  Lil Swine: how fishy
Aug-12-10  I Like Fish: hello ...
lil swine ...
Aug-12-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  kutztown46: After 24...Kg7


click for larger view

Analysis by Stockfish 1.8 JA 64bit (29-ply):

1. (-0.40): 25.Qf3 Kg8 26.Bd2 Nc4 27.Bxc4 Bg3+ 28.Kd1 Bxc4 29.Kc2 Qc7 30.Rg1 Bb3+ 31.Kc1 Bd6 32.Qf1 Bf8 33.e4 Bg7 34.Rxg6 fxg6 35.e5 g5 36.Qe2 Be6 37.Ra3 g4 38.d5 Bxd5 39.Qxg4 h5 40.Qxh5 Rf8

2. (-0.60): 25.Bd2 Nc4 26.Bxc4 Bxc4 27.0-0-0 Bxf1 28.Rxf1 Qc8 29.Qd5 Qe6 30.Qxa5 Qb3 31.Qd5 Qxb2+ 32.Kd1 Qb7 33.Qxb7 Rxb7 34.Kc2 Rg2 35.Kd3 Bb4 36.Ne4 Bxd2 37.Nxd2 Ra7 38.Ra1 h5 39.Nc4 h4 40.Rh1 Rxa4

3. (-0.60): 25.Bb5 Bh3 26.Rxf7+ Kxf7 27.Qf3+ Qf6 28.Qxh3 Rbg8 29.Ne4 Rg1+ 30.Bf1 Bg3+ 31.Ke2 Qg6 32.Bg2 Re1+ 33.Kd3 Nd5 34.Qd7+ Ne7 35.Bf3 Rf1 36.Be2 Rf2 37.d5 Rf5 38.Qe6+ Qxe6 39.dxe6+ Kxe6 40.Bd2 h5

4. (-0.80): 25.Bh5 Qg5 26.Bxg6 Qg3+ 27.Kd1 Bb3+ 28.Ke2 Bc4+ 29.Kd1 fxg6 30.Qf3 Bxf1 31.Qxf1 Rf8 32.Qa6 Rf2 33.Bd2 Qh2 34.Be1 Rxb2 35.Qb7+ Kh8 36.Qe4 Bf8 37.Rb1 Nxa4 38.d5 Rxb1+ 39.Nxb1 Qh5+ 40.Kc2 Nc5

5. (-1.01): 25.Bd3 Nd5 26.Ne2 Bb4+ 27.Kd1 Qc7 28.Qe5+ Qxe5 29.dxe5 Rg2 30.Rg1 Rxg1+ 31.Nxg1 Bg4+ 32.Be2 h5 33.e4 Nb6 34.Bg5 Nd7 35.Nf3 Nc5 36.Bf6+ Kh6 37.Bg5+ Kh7 38.Be3 Nxe4 39.Nd4 Bc5 40.Bxg4 hxg4

6. (-1.13): 25.Kd1 Bb3+ 26.Kd2 Nc4+ 27.Kd3 Bg3 28.Bd1 Nd6 29.Qf3 Bc4+ 30.Kc2 Bxf1 31.Qxf1 Qc8 32.Be2 Ne4 33.Bb5 f5 34.Qe2 Bd6 35.Bd2

Stockfish definitely does not like 25. Bd3, perhaps, <AgentRgent>, because it now "sees" 25...Nd5.

Aug-13-10  capafan: <kutz><Stockfish definitely does not like 25. Bd3, perhaps, <AgentRgent>, because it now "sees" 25...Nd5.>

Not to beat the same old drum, but...
one reason (but not the only reason) 25...Nd5 is so strong IMHO is that the move opens the half-open b-file (possible only because of 22...Qxb7) for the BR and BQ allowing Black to regain the pawn and penetrate deep into White's undeveloped king side.

In the other variations you give, this is achieved not from Nd5 but from Nc4.

Aug-14-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  kutztown46: After 27...Rxb2


click for larger view

Analysis by Stockfish 1.8 JA 64bit (30-ply):

1. (-1.09): 28.Rb1 Qb8 29.Bb5 f5 30.Rxf5 Nf6 31.Rxf6 Rxb1+ 32.Qxb1 Rxf6 33.Bc3 Bd5 34.Kd2 Rf2 35.Qg1+ Rg2 36.Qf1 Qb7 37.Qf5 Rg5 38.Qf1 Bg2 39.Qb1 Bf3 40.Qd3 Bb4 41.d5+ Bxc3+ 42.Qxc3+ Kg8 43.Nf4 Bxd5

2. (-1.61): 28.Rc1 Qb8 29.Rc2 Rb1+ 30.Rc1 Rxc1+ 31.Nxc1 Bg3+ 32.Kd1 Qb2 33.Bc4 Bg4+ 34.Be2 Bxe2+ 35.Nxe2 Qb3+ 36.Qc2 Nxe3+ 37.Bxe3 Qxe3 38.Qf5 Qb3+ 39.Qc2 Qb4 40.Qa2 Qe7 41.Nxg3 Rxg3 42.Qe2 Qd6 43.Qe4 h5

Stockfish does not like 28. Rc1.

Aug-15-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  WinKing: <kutztown46: After 27...Rxb2>

It is here, after this move was played, that I thougt we might actually have a real chance to win this game.

Jan-09-11  The Chess Express: It sure is easier to have the programs hash it out :)
Jan-28-11  Penguincw: I wonder when Battle of the Brains VI will take place.
Feb-08-11  The Chess Express: Not before Battle of the Brains IV & V.
Feb-13-11  Penguincw: < The Chess Express: Not before Battle of the Brains IV & V. > Woops.I forgot that VI is six and IV is four.
Mar-08-11  Penguincw: < Penguincw: < The Chess Express: Not before Battle of the Brains IV & V. > Woops.I forgot that VI is six and IV is four. >

Well,there's no Battle of the Brains IV yet,but there is the : Chessgames Challenge: Team White vs Team Black, 2011.

Mar-01-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  cro777: <Penguincw: I wonder when Battle of the Brains IV will take place.>

According to <chessgames.com>, the Battle of the Brains IV will start soon. The teams from the Battle of the Brains III will automatically swap colors.

chessgames.com chessforum

Dec-12-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: This is - to my mind - the most dynamic and exciting team game that CG has hosted, whether a World/GM game or a Battle of the Brains. Superb.
Feb-02-14  blue wave: Well, I don't think I'll ever play the Shabalov Attack again after being on the white team here.

But if I ever did for some reason, I would play 8.Bd2 instead of 8.Rg1.

Feb-03-14  blue wave: There is something about this game that is fascinating. Even though white lost, I'm wanting to come back to it to study this game in depth to try to understand it more.
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