< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·
|Nov-25-09|| ||randomsac: Just an amazing mate. Of course, white was lost because of a queen skewer anyway.|
|Nov-25-09|| ||JG27Pyth: JohnLSpouge<13…Bxd1 is sufficient to win, although there might be a better but more complicated variation after 13…Nb4+ <[as the game shows]>.>|
yep. That's where I got, too... Bxd1 is winning, and when I get there I'll look at Nb4+ more closely.
Full credit? I think so. And the mating net after Nb4+ isn't truly "airtight"... White has Kc4 to prolong his hopeless adventure (I wonder how long White survives after Kc4?)
|Nov-25-09|| ||zanshin: To my surprise, I got it (although White did not play the best defense).|
|Nov-25-09|| ||JG27Pyth: Oh, and if I'm not mistaken, this is a "perfect mate" with each mate square covered once and once only. (Has this been pointed out already? Is my definition correct?)|
|Nov-25-09|| ||CapAnson: argh..what is wrong with me.. I looked at this for several minutes stumped and never saw the pawn could simply take the knight. This is why I can never crack 2000.|
|Nov-25-09|| ||desiobu: I kept the piece with Bxd1. Nice mate though.|
|Nov-25-09|| ||JG27Pyth: I think this is best play after Kc4 (could be wrong, didn't check it)|
|Nov-25-09|| ||jsheedy: 10...gxf3, 11. Bxd8, f2+, 12. Ke2, Bg4+, 13. Kd3, Nb4+, 14. Kc4 (Kxe4, f5#), Be6+, 15. Kb5, a6+, 16. Ka5, b6#.|
|Nov-25-09|| ||johnlspouge: < <JG27Pyth> wrote: I think this is best play after Kc4 (could be wrong, didn't check it) >|
Before I left the house (some of us have to work :), Toga indicated a non-mating variation as best play after 14.Kc4. As I recall, the best variation uses a delayed Bxd1.
|Nov-25-09|| ||jsheedy: After 14. Kc4, just take the Q. I overlooked ...Be6+, 15. d5!|
|Nov-25-09|| ||psmith: <JG27Pyth> As has been pointed out above, 14. Kc4 Be6+? 15. d5! = at best.|
|Nov-25-09|| ||psmith: Actually, I think that's not right. I will investigate further, but I think Black is winning in the line I just gave. (By the way, I solved the puzzle up to Bxd1 but didn't see the mating possibilities.)|
|Nov-25-09|| ||johnlspouge: < <JG27Pyth> wrote: Oh, and if I'm not mistaken, this is a "perfect mate" with each mate square covered once and once only. (Has this been pointed out already? Is my definition correct?) >|
There is a model mate and an ideal mate, (see http://spouge.net/html.home/chess/i...), but a perfect mate is something else entirely (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfec...).
|Nov-25-09|| ||psmith: I don't have time to analyze this further, but examination with Fritz 5.32 seems to show that Black is much better at least after 14. Kc4 Be6+ 15. d5 Nxd5!|
|Nov-25-09|| ||carelessfills: <JG27Pyth: Oh, and if I'm not mistaken, this is a "perfect mate" with each mate square covered once and once only. (Has this been pointed out already? Is my definition correct?)?|
You are almost correct but not precise. I'd add that each of the King's escape squares can only be covered either by an opponent's piece or blocked by a friendly piece exactly one way, but not both.
In this case, since e3 qnd d4 are blocked by white's pawns, and are not covered by any black piece, so it is still a perfect mate, as you surmise.
|Nov-25-09|| ||VincentL: I did not solve this.
I looked at 10.... gxf3 straight away, but the variations after 11. Qf3 looked long for a Wednesday - so I then looked for a different first move.
After 11..... Qxh4+ 12. g3 Nxd3 13. hxg3 Bxg3+ 14. Kd2
Now 14.....Bg4 15. Rxh4 Bxf3 16. Rh3 Rg8 17. Rxh6 and white is down a bishop for a pawn.
14.....Qg5 15. Rg1 Rg8 16.Bc4
Black wins in these lines, but I was loooking for something more immediately decisive.
|Nov-25-09|| ||VincentL: <gofer> has 12.... Qe7 in my line above, which is much better.|
I think I was half asleep when I looked at this.
|Nov-25-09|| ||Patriot: <VincentL> Sleep deprivation will do it to ya! There's no need to complicate matters after 10...gxf3 11.Qxf3 Qxh4+ 12.g3. 12...Qe7 is good enough!|
|Nov-25-09|| ||Jimfromprovidence: There is an alternative solution as well, as white can feasibly play 11 Bf2 instead of 11 Bxd8. (Kudos to <agb2002>). |
We now have all forcing moves. 11...Nxf2 12 Kxf2 Qh4+ g3 13 Bxg3+! 14 hxg3 Qxh1, wins nicely.
click for larger view
|Nov-25-09|| ||YouRang: Well, the move I missed was 13...Nb4+!
I settled for 13...Bxd1 14.Kxe4 Kxd8 and I'm up a piece, I've got a pawn on the 7th rank, and white's king running around naked.
It should be good for a few laughs before I win.
|Nov-25-09|| ||patzer2: White's decisive mistake was of course 10. Bh4?? Instead, 10. Nfd2 Nxf2 11. Kxf2 Qg5 12. g3 avoids immediate loss and gives some drawing chances.|
|Nov-25-09|| ||chrisowen: Not too over easy but the test i see of the nice queen sac is whether gxf3 nips it in the bud. Walter will flag with Bh4 as from pole to
pole the g pawn's journey sinks the white king. The man of black is streaks ahead, only Nfd2 puts him back on track.|
|Nov-25-09|| ||xrt999: < zb2cr: Found this one easily. I have nothing to add to the comments by <zooter>, <dzechiel>, <Fomula7>, <SamAtoms1980>, <WhenHarryMetSally>, <agb2002>, and <TheaN>.>|
I also have nothing to add, with the exception that I have nothing to add.
|Nov-25-09|| ||antharis: 10... gxf3! for sure.
If 11. Bxd8 f2+ 12. Ke2 Bg4#.
And after 11. gxf3 or 11. Qxf3 then 11... Qxh4+ starts a forceful attack and wins two minor pieces additionally.
Nice but simple combination. Took me only a few seconds.
|Nov-25-09|| ||jussu: I must admit that I didn't see the mate, saw as far as 13... Bxd1 with an extra piece. Not that I have anything to add.|
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