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Ni Hua vs Magnus Carlsen
London Chess Classic (2009)  ·  Sicilian Defense: Canal Attack (B51)  ·  0-1
To move:
Last move:

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Given 5 times; par: 74 [what's this?]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 11 OF 12 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Dec-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  kb2ct:

Kramnik is lost.

:0)

Dec-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  ajile: ???????

White LOST??

Dec-13-09  zanshin: <The decisive mistake may have already been made a move earlier with 39.Qc2 (instead of Kc1)>

<Eyal> I went thru the game with Rybka and that's where the evals suddenly increased for Black.

Dec-13-09  hedgeh0g: The Kramnik game is probably drawn. I would have liked to see Howell win, however, partly because I'm half English and partly because I hate the Petrov and drawing mentalities.
Dec-13-09  zanshin: I wonder if <CG> will give us another game.
Dec-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jack Kerouac: <agile> That bishop check is lethal.....
Dec-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  An Englishman: Good Afternoon: I hope that CG will soldier on with either of the remaining games, as they remain quite complex, but I must check La Liga and then run off to do errands. Nice chatting with everyone!
Dec-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: <waustad> and if he was thinking about this position,


click for larger view

it's from Tarasov - Kochnoi, URS-ch Yerevan 1955, <and not in the database here> :D

Dec-13-09  Ulhumbrus: <chessgames.com> Are you going to broadcast any other games today?
Dec-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  tpstar: <another game> They went out back to rotate the donkey.

Q + N can be an endgame advantage over Q + B as the powers of Q & N complement each other better, yet in this instance White's unsafe King proved fatal. Congratulations to Carlsen.

Dec-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  waustad: Naka is toast
Dec-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessgames.com: That's it for today. We'll be back tomorrow morning at 9:00am Eastern for the penultimate round of the 2009 London Chess Classic. Hope to see you then!
Dec-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  eternaloptimist: <tpstar> how is it that a Q + N complement each other better than a Q + B? i've heard that b4, but it seems like it would be the opposite because the Q & B can both control diagonals. please elaborate on that.
Dec-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: this kind of endgames depends on some factors, e.g. king's safety, strength of pawn shield or type of position (open/closed). At least these three were favourable for black here.
Dec-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  TheBB: <eternaloptimist> I guess it's a matter of trying it out. I'm not very good, but I can "feel" how the queen and knight fit together. It may be so simple that the bishop's moves are a strict subset of the queen's, while a knight has genuinely unique moves.
Dec-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  ajile: <Jack Kerouac: <agile> That bishop check is lethal.....>

When I left the position looked equal.

Dec-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Landman: <eternaloptimist> The theory I've heard is that Q+B's capabilities overlap, and the Q+N are a bit more compltementary. Sounds right to me.
Dec-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  eternaloptimist: <shark & TheBB> thx for ur input. <shark> it does indeed depend on those factors that u pointed out. in this case the Q + B prevailed over the Q + N because of ni's weak e-pawn & the threat ...Bd3+. i think that whether or not u have Ps or not on both sides of the board is very important because the B has a speed advantage over the N. if Ps r on both sides of the board then the B will win in most cases because the N is too slow & awkward to have time to defend its Ps.
Dec-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  ajile: <eternaloptimist: <shark & TheBB> thx for ur input. <shark> it does indeed depend on those factors that u pointed out. in this case the + prevailed over the + because of ni's weak e-pawn & the threat ...d3+.>

The fact that White played a wrong move also might be a factor. 39..Qc2?

Dec-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  eternaloptimist: that's true <ajile>. also, the spite check 40.Qc8+?! didn't help matters for ni either.
Dec-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <eternaloptimist: <tpstar> how is it that a Q + N complement each other better than a Q + B? i've heard that b4, but it seems like it would be the opposite because the Q & B can both control diagonals. please elaborate on that.>

<TheBB>'s answer is as good as any. The idea that the Queen and knight complement each other better goes back to Capablanca. But if I recall correctly, John Watson looked at the statistics and found that Q+B outscored Q+N.

A lot depends on the player, as well as the position. I'd rather have the Q+B myself. As an illustration, if you put a white king on g1, a black queen on h3 and a black bishop on c5, I think you'll agree that the queen and bishop are complementing each other very well.

Dec-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  eternaloptimist: it's good to see people replying to my posts in a positive & helpful context @ this game. a pretty good bit of time either people only comment if they disagree w/ me or they ignore my comments altogether. although, i don't mind people disagreeing w/ me some. thx guys.
Dec-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  eternaloptimist: <keypusher: ...As an illustration, if you put a white king on g1, a black queen on h3 and a black bishop on c5, I think you'll agree that the queen and bishop are complementing each other very well.> LOL :D yes, they would be "complementing each other very well" because the white K would be checkmated. thx for ur interesting comments...the opinion of capa, the research of watson & the humor as well.
Dec-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  notyetagm: Another well-played game by Carlsen.
Dec-13-09  GreenFacedPatzer: Games like this just demonstate how I don't understand endgames, particularly endgames with queens still on the board. Five moves before the end, I'd've said this was a dead draw. Pawns are symmetrical, there's a Q+N vs Q+B imbalance, but ordinarily I'd be hard-pressed to turn that into anything like a winning advantage in a position like this.

And in five moves, without any move from white that looked horribly wrong to me, it's all over.

Like I said, I don't understand these endgames. :)

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