< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·
|Mar-04-10|| ||zanshin: <Fritz 10 quickly confirmed my OTB look in assessing 43. c5! to be its first choice and just as decisive as 43. Rxd7!>|
I agree <patzer2>. Here's a comparison of the two moves. Firebird gets cocky and predicts a mate! Lol!
[Mate in 23] d=24 43.c5 g5 44.Rxd7 Bxd7 45.c6 Bxc6 46.Kxc6 Kf7 47.d7 Kxf6 48.d8Q Kg6 49.Qe8 Kf5 50.Kd6 Kf4 51.Qxa4 Kf3 52.Qd1 Kf2 53.Kxe6 (0:06.54) 1101283kN
[Mate in 23] d=23 43.Rxd7 Bxd7 44.c5 Kf7 45.c6 Bxc6 46.Kxc6 Kxf6 47.d7 Ke7 48.Kc7 Kf6 49.d8Q Kf5 50.Kc6 h5 51.Qa5 Kf4 52.Qxa4 Kg3 53.Qb3 Kf4 54.Qxe6 g5 55.Qf6 Kg4 56.Qd4 Kf3 57.Qd1 Ke4 58.Qxh5 Ke5 59.Qxg5 Ke6 60.Qh6 Kf7 61.Qf4 Ke7 62.Qh4 Kf7 63.Kd5 Kg7 64.Qg5 (0:06.54) 1101283kN
Like others here, I also thought <43.Rxe6> must be a winning breakthrough - it isn't! :-)
|Mar-04-10|| ||wordfunph: 43.Rxe6 wins! but Gutman played 43.Rxd7 and still won the game..|
|Mar-04-10|| ||chrisowen: 43.Rxd7, out of the strong came forth sweetness. Levitate the rook's a fair trade, chapter closed. White canes the bishop.. bxd7 c5 does sear up like a lion. The three pawns are a swarm of bees that judges ok, bottle the king. Philistine defence goes belly up rxd7 bxd7 c5 or c5 a3 rxd7 bxd7 is the same son. Gutman's you garner a rather good refiner in the endgame it appears.|
|Mar-04-10|| ||A Karpov Fan: got it|
|Mar-04-10|| ||njchess: This puzzle is surprisingly easy, but I can also see why some would find it difficult. I think the difficulty for most comes from the perceived hopelessness of the situation for White since he is unable to stop Black's advancing a-pawn from queening.|
However, it will take Black at least four moves before his queen will be a factor, which is an eternity in chess. Moreover, other than advancing his a-pawn, Black has no other counterplay (e.g. his king is trapped on the back rank and his bishop is only effective as a defender of the d-pawn). So, White is free to do whatever he can in four moves.
As for White, given the position, he only has two active pieces in his rook and his c-pawn (advancing the f-pawn is silly since Black's king already blocks that file). And, he is only two moves away from queening (and then mate in two), assuming he can unblock his d-pawn. Still, the only way White can win is if he can queen before Black.
Given the position, White's rook only has two meaningful moves, 43. Rxe6 or 43. Rxd7. I immediately discarded Rxe6 because it gives Black the opportunity to move his king off the back rank via Kf7 since he need not recapture. By keeping Black's king pinned on the back rank, White threatens to give check via his queening d-pawn potentially forcing Black to use a move, further delaying his own queening.
That left 43. Rxd7. Black must recapture (43. Rxd7 a3? 44. Ra7 ) which prevents him from advancing his a-pawn and his king is still pinned to the back rank. 43. Rxd7 Bxd7 leaves White with only one move 44. c5. Now it's just a matter of counting moves.
43. Rxd7! Bxd7
44. c5 a3 (One)
45. c6 Bxc6
46. Kxc6 a2 (Two)
47. d7 a1=Q (Three)
48. d8=Q+ and it's mate in two.
An alternate but equally bad line for Black is 44. ... Ke8 45. c6 Bxc6 (45. ... a3? 46. cxd7+ Kxd7 47. f7 ; White mates in three) 46. Kxc6 a3 47. d7+ Kd8 48. Kd6 a2 49. f7 a1=Q 50. f8=Q++.
Given the above move order, 43. c5 would transpose, but I like 43. Rxd7 since it is more forcing. Time to check but I doubt White missed this one since he is passed time control and since there are so few options for move 43. I think the only question is when did Black resign.
|Mar-04-10|| ||Patriot: White has very few options here as black's a-pawn is dangerously close to promotion. I looked at Rh7 first which seems pointless so then Rxd7 came to mind. This move is somewhat logical as the rook would like to go to a7 to stop the pawn, but the obvious reply ...Bxd7 must be considered.|
Now the most obvious thing to do in these type of positions is start pushing those advanced pawns and try to break one through! So...
Black wants to do the same! 35...Ke8 doesn't work: 36.c6 and whether black plays 36...Bxc6 37.Kxc6 a3 38.d7+ Kd8 39.f7 or 36...a3 37.cxd7+ Kxd7 38.f7 , both are an easy win for white.
36.c6 Bxc6 (36...a2 37.cxd7 a1/Q 38.d8/Q+ Kf7 39.Qe7+ Kg8 40.Qg7#)37.Kxc6 a2 38.d7 a1/Q 39.d8/Q+ Kf7 40.Qe7+ Kg8 41.Qg7#
This seemed pretty easy. Some of you pointed out that 34.c5 also wins. It's always a good idea to figure out how to get those advanced pawns rolling and this is a very direct way. It's just that the immediate 34.c5 doesn't seem very logical since it is blockaded by the bishop. After the game move, the pawn seems to have some hope of advancing.
I never considered 34.Rxe6, mostly because I saw 34.Rxd7 first and its enormous potential. But as pointed out, it is quickly refuted by 34...Kf7.
|Mar-04-10|| ||ROADDOG: <whiteshark:>I was too careless thinking 43.Rxe6 is the easiest anwer. <<I've been disabused today>> |
I hate it when that happens!
|Mar-04-10|| ||Jimfromprovidence: This is the text after 44 c5. Black rightfully resigns. |
click for larger view
In my mind's eye, I saw this position instead. Black draws.
click for larger view
Better luck tomorrow.
|Mar-04-10|| ||Patriot: I just realized I transposed the starting move number in my lines...<sigh> It's supposed to be move 43 and continued from there. Sorry!|
|Mar-04-10|| ||YouRang: I see that I've joined the 43.Rxe6 group that simply miscalculated this position. But 43.Rxd7! and 44.c5 is amazing. Great puzzle.|
|Mar-04-10|| ||DarthStapler: I picked Rxe6 instead|
|Mar-04-10|| ||scormus: Glad I'm not alone in picking Rxe6. 43 c5 appears to be as good as Rxd7, but only if you see the strength of Rxd7. I hope to have a better shot at it tomorrow .... without using too much worktime. <Patriot> don't worry about the starting move number, thing is you found the solution.|
|Mar-04-10|| ||MaczynskiPratten: Move order is interesting. The c5 alternative to Rxd7 has been mentioned. I missed this, I was looking at 43 Rxe6 and saw Kf7. So I plumped for 43 Kc7. Now 44 Rxd7 Bxd7 Kxd7 is threatened, and Black does not have the option to play Kf7 at once, so he has to race his pawn with a3 and make it vulnerable to capture - White plays 44 Rxe6 now.|
Still, it's all academic, because the Rxd7 / c5 line is greatly superior.
|Mar-04-10|| ||ruzon: My first thought on seeing the puzzle was: "Did that rook parachute there?"|
Then I looked at Rxd7, but I was focused on queening with the d-pawn so I thought of Kc7 first. Since the king can't get out of the way in time, I went with Rxe6. I thought the c-pawn was there only to stop Black from defending a pawn on a2.
|Mar-04-10|| ||WhiteRook48: i new it|
|Mar-04-10|| ||YouRang: <ruzon: My first thought on seeing the puzzle was: "Did that rook parachute there?">|
lol - I noticed the bizarre placement too. :-)
I guess that was a clue to the puzzle, because where it stands, it's so useless that you might as well trade it for a pawn.
|Mar-04-10|| ||remolino: 43.c5 followed by 44.Rxd7 should do the trick|
|Mar-04-10|| ||David2009: Thursday puzzle 04/03/2010 L Gutman vs M Knezevic, 1984 White 43?|
A challenging position. 43 Kc7 a3 44 Rxd7 Bxd7 45 Kxd7 a2 46 Kc7 a1=Q is too slow,
43 f7 (intending Re8+ and Ra8) is a dreadful blunder since the B controls a8. Rg7 fails to g5! and Black
wins; capturing the h pawn is too slow since Black controls both h1 and a8. This leaves only:
43 Rxe6 hoping for 43...dxe6?? 44 Kxc6 1-0 since a Pawn queens by force and with check. Black can fight on with 43...Kf7
44 Re5 Kxf6 45 Rc5 h5 (or 46 Rxc6 and if 46...a3 47 Rc4 and Ra5 stop the Pawn, whilst if 46...dxc6 47 d7 queens with check.
Time to see how the game went:
The game line is much more decisive. Instead 43 Rxe6 Kf7 44 Re5 Kxf6 45 Rc5 Ke6! (stops Rxc6 because the queening is not with check) 46 Kc7
click for larger view
may still win but is slow and messy. No time for more tonight.
POSTSCRIPT: A quick Crafty check shows 44...Kxf6? is a mistake: instead 44...g4!! and Black is winning. Try it and be amazed! On-line Crafty link: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...
You are white, drag and drop the move you want to make. Enjoy!
|Mar-04-10|| ||mig55: Dzechiel, how are things going? I hope very well. Greetings, we miss you!|
|Mar-04-10|| ||rapidcitychess: Got this one right. Easy!Is Thursday supposed to be easy? They said even Strong players should have trouble. This is the first move I saw!|
|Mar-04-10|| ||BOSTER: <AccDrag> < You can see that p/f6 isn't even needed for White to win>. Really?|
|Mar-04-10|| ||randomsac: After Rxd7 the c and d pawns will march. Losing the pawn race is okay since promotion will check the black king. I'd do this in real life, but only becasue there really aren't any other options except to go for it and hope.|
|Mar-04-10|| ||muralman: Do the math - this was a natural|
|Mar-04-10|| ||patzer2: After 43. Rxe6? g5! or 43. Rxe6? Kf7!, not only is White giving up winning chances but is in danger of losing.|
For example, Black is winning after 43. Rxe6 g5 44. Re7 a3 45. Re3 a2 46. Ra3 g4 47. Rxa2 g3 48. Ra3 g2 49. Rg3 h5 50. Kc7 h4 51. Rxg2 Bxg2 52. Kxd7 h3 53. Kc7 Bc6 54. Kxc6 h2 55. d7 h1=Q+ 56. Kc7 Qh2+ 57. Kc8 Qh3 58. c5 Qe6 59. Kc7 Qe5+ 60. Kb7 Qd5+ 61. c6 Qd6 .
Perhaps White can improve and find an improvement with a precise series of strong moves for a draw after 43. Rxe6? g5!, but the practical chances of survival in this position appear to range from extremely difficult to impossible.
|Mar-04-10|| ||johnlspouge: Thursday (Medium)
L Gutman vs M Knezevic, 1984 (43.?)
White to play and win.
Material: R for B+2P. The Black Kf8 has 1 legal move, on the back rank. Black has a passed Pa4 threatening to queen in 3 moves. Because the White Kb6 cannot stop Pa4, White must counter-attack either by creating a passer or by threatening Kf8 enough to render Pa4 irrelevant, or defend by disentangling Re7 to stop Pa4.
Candidates (43.): Rxd7, Rxe6
[else, 44.Ra7 stops Pa4 and preserves queening and # threats]
(1) 44...a3 45.c6
(1.1) 45…a2 46.cxd7 a1=Q 47.d8=Q+ Kf2 48.Qe7+ Kg1 49.Qg7#
(1.2) 45…Bxc6 46.Kxc6 Ke8
[else, 47.Pd6-d7-d8=Q+ and then # as in (1.1)]
47.Kc7, with a win as in (1.1)
(1.3) 45…Ke8 46.cxd7+ Kxd7 47.f7 a2
48.f8=Q a1=Q 49.Qe7+ Kc8 50.Qc7#
(2) 44…Be8 [Bc8 is worse] 45.c6 a3 46.d7 a2 47.d8=Q a1=Q
48.Qe7+ Kg8 49.Qg7#
Other alternatives are transpositions of (1.1).
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