< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
|Oct-14-11|| ||scormus: drat, seems after 18 ... Nf4 my 19 Qg5 doesnt work (19 ... Ne2+ etc). Really, this is a great puzzle!|
|Oct-14-11|| ||jackalope: <Memethecat>
There is a...
D <21... Qc8+ 22. f3 Qxf6 23. Qxf6 gxf6>
Queens are gone and White has lost his bishop. Even if White declines the queen trade, he is now down the bishop with a severely weakened attack.
I just can't find a strong continuation for White after 18. Bf6 Ng6 - it looks like White must play very accurately to stay even.
Fun position - lots of possibles.
|Oct-14-11|| ||Mikey00004: @jackalope after your 19... Rfe8 20. Nxg7 is logical and if 20... Rxe1+ 21. Rxe1 then what? i wouldnt mind at all to get up with you on Facebook or something so we can go thru all possible counterplay but im to lazy to type in all variations haha. lmk you thoughts|
|Oct-14-11|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: <Mikey00004: @CHESSTTCAMPS thats very cool but once you make the first move 18. Bf6 the whole board changes and gets messed up. i tried reloading link twice. anyone else having that problem??>|
Try this link - I forgot that it doesn't like a '-' in the title because it messes up the parameter list. I'm not certain that's the reason for your problem, but it might be. At least it straightens up the title.
|Oct-14-11|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: P.S. If anyone comes up with the winning line against Crafty's defense, please share it.|
|Oct-14-11|| ||Mikey00004: @ chessttcamps i still cant get it to work your new provided link does the same thing after i make the move Bf6|
|Oct-14-11|| ||BOSTER: To prevent <Glimoy> <Q-sees-g> after 18.Bf6 black can try 18...Ng4 fighting for black squares in black camp.
After 19.Bxg7 Rd8 white have not too much.|
|Oct-14-11|| ||Jimfromprovidence: <morf>. I was referring to your refutation of 18 Bf6 Qd7 with 19 Ne7+. It works wonderfully.|
<abuzic > got it too, I see.
|Oct-14-11|| ||Mikey00004: @ BOSTER one move further it gets ugly 20. Qg5 then some spite checks 20... Ne2+ 21. Kh1 Bxg2+ 22. Kxg2 Qc6+ 23. Kh3 and now the queen must sac herself to prevent mate with Qg6 24. Ne7+ forking queen and king|
|Oct-14-11|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: <Mikey00004> I'm sorry, it's working for me and I don't have any good ideas about what's going wrong. Perhaps you need a Java update on your PC. You could try going to the Board Gererator page and input the position yourself:|
|Oct-14-11|| ||Mikey00004: @chssttcamps ive been able to do previous crafty endame trainers tho :( i wanna beat it haha. . can u at least link the line that crafty puts up in defense?? haha|
|Oct-14-11|| ||jackalope: Thanks <Mikey00004>!|
That's the move I've been looking for - kept thinking the bishop needed to take g7. Tunnel vision I guess :-)
|Oct-14-11|| ||Mikey00004: when im trying to set the board up it wont even let me place a pawn on the g7 square haha. . darn|
|Oct-14-11|| ||Mikey00004: np Jackolope :D it was really more about move order than tunnel vision i think since in your latest line u had Nxg7 at move 21. but in that case it was much more useful for black to capture on e1 than in the early line of 20. Nxg7 since Q could grab f3 in your line but not my line|
|Oct-14-11|| ||JBF: Chessttcamps: I got it after reading various kibitzes:|
18.Bf6!(but kind of obvious) Ng6 19.Rae1! (from a previous kibitz) Rfc8 (other people report Rfb8 but I thnk it is better against 20.Ng7) 20.Qg5! (also from kibitzes in different position, Ng7 did not work despite winning the queeen) h6 21.Nh6 Kh7 22.Nf5 Qd7 23.Ng7 Be4 (that is a kind of resignation already) 24.dxe4 and won it easily from here
|Oct-14-11|| ||Mikey00004: woot! good to see all my moves were helpful. . wish i coulda worked out the EGT as well tho :(|
|Oct-14-11|| ||morfishine: <Jimfromprovidence> I kept looking at the board thinking "Jim's done it again: He's found a huge improvement". Only then did I realize that 19.Ne7+ leads to the same mating pattern as <Nh6+>, just from a different angle. |
This doesn't detract from your unique resourcefulness! :)
|Oct-14-11|| ||tacticalmonster: candidate: 18 Bf6 - This has to be the right move. White aims at the g7 weakness. Now White threatens Bxb7, Bxe5 and Qh6. Black has only one response: |
a) 18 Rfe8
a1) 19 Qg5 Ne2+ 20 Kh1 Bxg2+ 21 Kxg2 Qc6+ 22 f3 Qxf6
a2) 19 Nh6+ Kf8 20 Bxg7+ Kxg7 21 Qg5+ Kf8 (not 21 Ng6 22 Nf5+ Kg8 23 Qf6 Ne2+ 24 Kh1 Bxg2+ 25 Kxg2 Qb7+ 26 f3 Nef4+ 27 gxf4 Re2+ 28 Kh1 Kf8 29 Rae1 Rxe1 30 Qg7+ Ke8 31 Rxe1+ Kd8 32 Qg8+ Kd7 33 Qxf7+ Kc8 34 Re8+ ) 22 Rfe1 Bxg2 23 Qg8+ Ke7 24 Qxf7+ Kd8 25 Qxc7+ Kxc7 26 Kxg2
a3) 19 Nxg7 Reb8 (not 19 Bxg2 20 Nxe8 Nf3+ 21 Kxg2 Qc6 (not 21 Nxd2 22 Nxc7 Rc8 23Bxd2 Rxc7 24 Bxc3 dxc3 ) 22 Qh6 Ne1++ 23 Kh3 Qg2+ 24 Kg4 Qf3+ 25 Kh4 Ng2+ 26 Kh3 ) 20 Ne8! Rxe8 21 Qh6 Ne2+ 22 Kh1 Bxg2+ 23 Kxg2 Qc6+ 24 f3 Qxf6 25 Qxf6
|Oct-14-11|| ||Sularus: I got 18. Bf6 and all forced/best variations if black moves his g pawn. yet i failed to consider what if he doesn't move the g pawn? lol. epic fail on my part.|
|Oct-14-11|| ||vajeer: < jackalope: <Mikey00004> - I see what you're saying - tried playing it out but I can't find a clear advantage for White - Black maintains play.
18. Bf6 Ng6
19. Rfe1 Rfe8
20. Bxb7 Qxb7
21. Nxg7 Rxe1+
22. Rxe1 Qf3
White is up 1 pawn and has a DSB vs a knight. Seems even for Black.
Anyway, certainly better than what was actually played by Black.
18. Bf6 Ng6
19 Qh6 gxh6
|Oct-14-11|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: <vajeer:
18. Bf6 Ng6
19 Qh6 gxh6
Sorry, but 19.Qh6 is refuted by 19... Ne2+ 20.Kh1 Bxg2+ 21.Kxg2 Qc6+ followed by 22... Qxf6. A similar line has come up a number of times in earlier kibitzing.
|Oct-14-11|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: <JBF:> Thanks for posting the winning line against 18... Ng6. I was trying to force things with 19.Bxg7, which is a mistake.|
|Oct-14-11|| ||M.Hassan: "Difficult" White to play 18.?
White has a Bishop for a Knight.
It is the g7 paen that has to be removed or displaced that can make differnce. At first I looked at its removal:
That is not much of an achievement for white. Try diasplacing the g7 pawn:
<now if ....gxf6 19.Qh6 and make next move>
Seems that displacing of the g7 pawn or "intention" of displacing it starts to work.
<....gxh6 20.Qxh6 and mate next move>
|Oct-15-11|| ||abuzic: <CHESSTTCAMPS: Try beating Crafty from the puzzle position:...>|
Crafty preferred the 18...Ng6 line and lost:
18.Bf6 Ng6 19.Rae1 Rfc8 20.Qg5 h6 21.Nxh6+ Kh7 22.Bxg7 after this it started to defend totally nuts:
22...Ne4 23.Bxe4 Bxe4 24.Rxe4 Qd8 25.Bf6 Qxf6 26.Qxf6... it got fed up I guess...
After 18.Bf6 Ng6 19.Rae1 Rfc8 20.Qg5 black looks helpless:
20...h6 21.Nh6+ above variation;
20...h5 21.Ne7+ Qxe7
<(21...Kf8 22.Bxg7+ Kxg7 23.Nf5+ Kg8 24.Qf6 nothing stops Qg7#)>
20...Bxg2 21.Nh6+ Kh8 <(or 21...Kf8)> 22.Bxg7+ and the same theme with Qf6, Qg7# is repeated.
20...Qd7 21.Bxb7 Qxb7 22.Nh6+ will force mate with the same Qf6 Qg7#.
<tatarch: <tatarch: Why not just 18...Ne2+ right away, to pull the queen off the c1-h6 diagonal...>
White has also the e2-h5 diagonal:
18.Bf6 Ne2+ 19.Qxe2 Bxg2
<(19...gxf6 20.Qh5 Bc8 <[20...Qd7 21.Bxb7 Kh8 <21...♕xb7 22.f4!}>; 21...♘g6 22.♗c6 ♕e6 23.♗xa8 ♖xa8 24.♖ae1 ♕d7 25.♖e7 ♘xe7 26.♕g4+ ♘g6 27.♘h6+ ♔g7 28.♕xe7> 22.Qh6 Qxf5 23.Be4 Ng4 24.Qh3]> 21.Nh6+ Kg7 22.Bxa8)>
<(20...Bh3 21.Bxe5 Rfe8 22.Qh5 Qxe5 23.Qxh3; 20...Rfe8 21.Bxe5 Qxe5 <[21...Qc6 22.Qg4+ Qg6 23.Rfe1! Qxg4 24.Qxg4 24.Nh6+ Kf8 25.Nxg4 Bb7]> 22.Qg4+ Kf8 23.Kxg2)>
21.Kxg2. White will be up a B and a P.
|Oct-24-11|| ||crabgrass: i thought
21.Q+ leads to mate in two
an error somewhere?
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