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| Feb-22-11 | | gmalino: 17.Rxe7+ Kxe7
18.Qd6+ Ke8
19.Qxc6+ Kf8
20.Bd6+ Kg8
21.Re8+ Rxe8
22.Qxe8#
If black declines 17.....Kxe7 by 17....Kf8 then
18.Bd6 wins at least a piece. |
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| Feb-22-11 | | knight knight: <paavoh> in the position on the home page there is a rook on a1. <LTJ> has posted this position above. Chessgames have blundered today!! With the rook on a1, 18. Rxa7 isn't best anyway, instead 18. Qd6 wins the bishop on c6 (as other kibitzers have pointed out). I didn't consider it because c2 is hanging, but after 18...Qxc2+ 19. Re2+ wins the queen. Without a rook on a1 (as in the game), 17. Rxe7+ Kf8 (17...Kxe7?? is the game line) 18. Qd6 Kg8 19. Qxc6 Rf8, white is winning but there are a few more moves to be played. |
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Feb-22-11
 | | David2009: Philidor vs Cotter, 1789 White 17? 17.Rxa7!? 0-0! 18 Rxa8 Rxa8 19 Rxe7 may well win, but better is the direct 17.Rxe7+ Kf8 18.Rxa7. Time to
check:
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That extra Rook sure does help!
Here's a Crafty End Game Trainer link to the extra-Rook variation 17.Rxa7!? 0-0! 18 Rxa8 Rxa8 19 Rxe7 with White about to play 19 Rxe7 to which Crafty EGT will reply Qc3 to leave  click for larger view Winning this will be uphill work: White's pieces are hanging and so the first priority is to avoid losing material. Without using Fritz 6 or Crafty EGT colours reversed I would struggle on this one. Link: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t... |
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Feb-22-11
 | | Once: "There is a fifth dimension, beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call <The Twilight Zone>." And, no, I didn't write that. It's a quote from the first series of the Twilight Zone - seems somehow appopropriate for today's POTD. Let's see if we can sort all of this out.
First, a message for those of you watching from the future. And no, I don't mean a distant future where the polar ice caps have collapsed and the earth is ruled by (a) apes (b) killer robots or (c) 1970's style punks wearing uncomfortable trousers and driving modified cars with spikes stuck all over them whilst trying to kill a young Mel Gibson and waiting for Tina to sing. Although, of course if anyone is watching from a future like this - hello! Good luck. No, this is for folks watching from the near future and wondering why were are talking about a rook on a1. You see, that's because CG.com inadvertently published the puzzle with the aforementioned major piece sitting on the aforementioned bottom left hand corner, like this:  click for larger viewIn fact, Philidor played this game at rook odds so there never was a rook on a1. But we've inadvertently created an alternative universe where that rook exists, so we might as well solve the puzzle. If indeed it is a puzzle. If a tree falls over in a forest and no-one hears it, does it make a sound? I don't know, but I do know that if a bear was standing next to the tree whilst it was falling over, that bear would probably have an involuntary bowel movement. From our hypothetical twilight zone puzzle position, you might be tempted by 1. Rxa7, thinking that black cannot reply 1...Rxa7 because you could play 2. Qd8#. But this would throw away white's advantage: 1. Rxa7 0-0 2. Rxa8 Bc5+. No, the way to win our twilight zone puzzle is 1. Rxe7+ Kf8 2. Rxa7  click for larger viewWhite has a huge advantage and should win very soon. Return to normality, and the puzzle without the Ra1. The game score shows what happens if black rolls over (metaphorically) to have his metaphorical tummy metaphorically tickled. But Fritzie wants black to build a fortress with: 17. Rxe7+ Kf8 18. Qd6 Kg8 19. Qxc6 Rf8  click for larger viewAnd we get one of those strange positions where black has very few threats of his own but is hunkered down behind barricades. It's kind of like a weird alternative future where some kind of a-pocky-lips has happened, nearly all the oil has run out and so, rather counter-intuitively, everyone has taken to driving cars with immense engines through the Australian desert. And in the middle of all this madness a group of good honest decent people have somehow stumbled across an oil well and have fortified themselves in said oil well whilst the baddies in the previously-referenced uncomfortable trousers try to get in. As you do. What a strange day we are having. |
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Feb-22-11
 | | patzer2: <Once><In fact, Philidor played this game at rook odds so there never was a rook on a1. But we've inadvertently created an alternative universe where that rook exists, so we might as well solve the puzzle. If indeed it is a puzzle. If a tree falls over in a forest and no-one hears it, does it make a sound? I don't know, but I do know that if a bear was standing next to the tree whilst it was falling over, that bear would probably have an involuntary bowel movement.>
Your amusing comment and today's puzzle with the extra Rook remind me of some recent auto insurance TV commercials. Could we save you 15 percent on your auto insurance? Does a bear ____ in the woods? In this case, does it make it difference if the extra Rook isn't on the a1 square? I suggest it does. For example, in today's Tuesday puzzle solution, it makes a difference after 17. Rxe7! Kf8. If the Rook is missing, as in the position below,
 click for larger viewthe only clear winning continuation is 18. Qd6! when play might continue 18...Kf8 19. Qxc6 Rf8 20. Re8 h6 21. Rxf8+ Kxf8 22. Qa8+ Ke7 23.
Qe4+ Kf8 24. Be5 Qb6+ 25. Bd4 Qb8 26. Qg4! .
However, if we have the extra Rook on a1, we have many other clear winning possibilities such as 18. Re1 , 18. Bd6 or 18. Rxa7 . |
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Feb-22-11
 | | patzer2: With the Rook on a1, Fritz 10 gives more than 30 winning possibilities after 17. Rxe1! Kf8, but if the Rook is missing only 17. Rxe1! Kf8 18. Qd6! works. |
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Feb-22-11
 | | Once: <Patzer2> You are quite right. Thew Ra1 makes quite a difference to the follow-up, if not the first move. Thinking that there was a rook on a1 I had a very un-Tuesday-like experience trying to work out whether 17. Rxe7 was better than 17. Rxa7. And that got me wondering in the 17. Rxa7 line about whether castling was possible for black. Normally CG.com don't use puzzles where castling is an option as we have no way of knowing whether it is legal or not. In a traditional puzzle the usual convention is to assume that castling is allowed unless specifically told otherwise. But these aren't traditional puzzles - they are real games - so does that convention also apply here? I can't recall it ever coming up before. And then it turns out that the Ra1 is nothing more than a dream, and all my conjecture and wondering is for naught. |
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| Feb-22-11 | | Fuegoverde: Beautifull! 17 Rxe7+ Kxe7, 18 Qd6+ Ke8, 19 Re1+ and mate follows. That's what I saw. A rook is mising? Not much of a problem for Philidor, he gives mate anyway! Would I? |
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| Feb-22-11 | | castle dweller: <once> alot of mystique today . . . trees falling . . .
bears pooping . . .
unable to perceive the 5th dimension . . .
we humans question what we believe. So, for todays puzzle, I guess I will add one more What is the sound of one rook checking? |
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Feb-22-11
 | | agb2002: From a King's Gambit, perhaps.
White has a bishop and a knight for the bishop pair and a pawn. The black DSB is the only defender of the black king. Therefore, 17.Rxe7+: A) 17... Kxe7 18.Qd6+ Ke8 19.Re1+ and mate in two.
B) 17... Kf8 18.Qd6
B.1) 18... Qxa1 19.Rd7+ Kg8 (19... Ke8 20.Qe7#) 20.Rd8+ Be8 21.Rxa8 Qa4 22.Qe7 Qxc2+ 23.Kg3 Qg6+ 24.Ng5 + -. B.2) 18... Qxc2+ 19.Kg1 Kg8 20.Rxf7 Bxf3 (20... Kxf7 21.Ng5+ and mate in two) 21.Rxf3 + -. |
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| Feb-22-11 | | newzild: My country just got wasted by an earthquake, so finding it hard to concentrate, but 17. Rxe7+ Kxd7 18. Qd6+ Ke8 19. Re1+ does the trick. |
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Feb-22-11
 | | Patriot: When I saw the puzzle position I looked over a few candidates and thought "White wins at least a piece with 17.Rxe7+. After 17...Kxe7 18.Qd6+ Ke8 19.Re1+ and mate after a few "useless interpositions. If 17...Kf8, maybe 18.Qd6." Then I clicked the puzzle and thought "What?! Where's the a1-rook??" It looks like everyone else had a similar experience. This would've been great for "April Fools" but this is February! Is it that white gave "rook odds" but the puzzle can't handle it? |
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Feb-22-11
 | | scormus: <newzild> sorry to read about it, theres a lot on the Europe news. Dreadful devastation, nature can be very brutal. Take care. |
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| Feb-22-11 | | 1.e4effort: 17. Rxe7+ Kxe7
18. Qd6+ and now the BK has options but it looks like none of them are good.
19. Qxc6 and the BK is one the run, and White has a Rook in reserve. OK, just checked. If White is giving Rook odds, there shouldn't have been a Rook at a1 in the puzzle. grrrrr.... isn't chess hard enough??? |
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| Feb-22-11 | | VincentL: <newzild>I send your people all my condolences. I know what it is like; I was in an 8.8 quake here in Chile last year. |
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| Feb-22-11 | | newzild: <VincentL> and <scormus>: Thanks guys. I too was in Chile last year, incredible as it sounds. I'm in Malaysia now, but plenty of friends in Christchurch. Hopefully they're okay. |
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| Feb-22-11 | | Willber G: With best play by black (unlike the real game) this is not a trivial win for white: 17. Rxe7+ Kf8
18. Qd6 Kg8
19. Qxc6 Rf8
20. Re8 h6 and white has a lot of work to do.
Not a Tuesday puzzle IMO unless I've missed an easy mate after 19...Rf8. |
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Feb-22-11
 | | Once: <newzild> That puts everything into perspective. The best of luck, my friend. |
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Feb-22-11
 | | OhioChessFan: <Once: But Fritzie wants black to build a fortress with: 17. Rxe7+ Kf8 18. Qd6 Kg8 19. Qxc6 Rf8> What position are you looking at? 18. Rxf7+ and Black is mated soon. |
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Feb-22-11
 | | Once: <What position are you looking at?> This one:
 click for larger viewFritz gives this an eval of +2.7 ish with ideas of Qe5 and Bd5. He also says that black can survive the earlier variation 18. Rxf7+ Kxf7  click for larger viewWith an eval of -6.8 (ie no white mate and black gets to keep the material) Or 20. Rxf7+ Kxf7 which he thinks is a draw by perpetual. I don't see a mating line white with Rxf7, unless it is one with mysterious Ra1 on the board. |
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Feb-22-11
 | | scormus: <Patriot> you could be on the right lines about setting up a puzzle from an odds game. But if <CG> really meant theres no Ra1 .... then it looks to me like a weekend puzzle on Tuesday :O |
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Feb-22-11
 | | OhioChessFan: Oh, never mind me <Once> I got lost in 2 different lines. |
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| Feb-22-11 | | BiggCojones: There is an extra rook on a1 on the first diagram and the next move is the 17th for white. But in the actual game the rook is not there!!
Anybody else noticed? |
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Feb-22-11
 | | scormus: <Once: But Fritzie wants black to build a fortress with: 17. Rxe7+ Kf8 18. Qd6 Kg8 19. Qxc6 Rf8> I was wondering about 18. Ne5. Lots of promising lines but in all the ones I looked at B has a defence. eg. 18 ... Be8 19 Rxe8+ Rxe8 20 Bd6+ Kg8 21 Qf3 Qxc2+ 22 Kg3 looked good but then ... Qa2. Anyone see an improvement? Oh well, there always Rybka ..... |
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Feb-22-11
 | | scormus: <BiggCojones .... Anybody else noticed?> What!! No, I'm never realised. Thanks for pointing it out ;) |
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