< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 3 ·
|Jul-24-10|| ||RandomVisitor: 37.Nf5 h4 38.Qh6+ Kf6 39.Qxh4+ g5 40.Qh6 mate is probably a cleaner finish.|
|Jul-24-10|| ||inotfolia: 34...Kf6 35. f4! [...exf4 36. e5+ dxe5 37. Nce4#]
A very nice move 34. Bh6+.
|Jul-24-10|| ||OBIT: The move I'd like to play is 34. Bh6+, To tactically justify it, I figure I need something reasonably convincing after 34...Kxh6 35. Qf8+ Kg5. And, here I'm thinking the next move is 36. Nf5! |
If the knight isn't taken, the king can be pulled into the open with ...Qh6+ Kf6 Qg7+ Kh5 h4+. Surely there is a mate from there. So, I'm assuming 36...gxf5, and then 37. Qg7+ Kh5 when 38. g4+ fg 39. fg+ Kh4 40. Qh6+.
Oh, that's enough analyzing. I haven't worked out all the mates yet, but if I have a ticking clock I am playing 34. Bh6+ and starting the king hunt, trusting there is a mate at the end of it.
|Jul-24-10|| ||BOSTER: Everybody , who read our Kibitzer, can meet this stereotype <when I look at these puzzles I automatically start considering the moves which I would not considering during a OTB game>.
The same philosophy have most of our members including <Patriot>, <Once>, <dzechiel>,who has participated here during many years.
There is not a very idle Q.: Why do players can not "transfer" their knowledge from <CG> to real game.
This is one reason,how I guess. It is difficult to get a lot from puzzles if your goal is only to answer very fast and send a comment to be first-this is only to satisfy self.
Another reason (my opinon) is related to <CG> strategy- to choose puzzle. <The difficulty of the puzzles increases as the week progresses>. Such strategy is the futile attempt to create the iron order in the sensitive world of imagination like chess, where even all rules are relative, and where a panorama during the battle very often looks like the boundless chaos beyond any calculations.|
I'd say such strategy is too far from real life. For ex. Monday puzzle can produce Pavlov's reflex in your brain-sacr. the Q (orR). But, if playing the OTB game,you meet the same position,let's say on Saturday,not everybody will find such sacr.
I will give you one example. A few days ago we had puzzle with white to play on diagram.
[bad FEN: r2qr1k1/ppp2pbp/5np1/1b2N3/4P3/8/PP1N1PPP/R1BQ1R1K1]
After only two! "forced" moves everybody (even who play without using a chess set) could see the position on the next diagram, where black to play.
click for larger view
Now imagine for a moment this is your Monday puzzle.Believe me ,everybody will find queen sacr.Qd5!- it is so easy. This is Monday!
But it was not Monday, it was Wednesday, and move Qd5 was taboo for us, we did not see it.
Think about this. I guess the puzzles with random difficulty during a week are more effective and, no doubt , are more real. In spite of this <CG> is an excellent posibility to understand and enjoy chess art, the art where, as a rule, a commonplace truth does not exist.
Finally I have met the player who refuted <stacase'> <Considering that it's a puzzle...> with the laconic like "to be ,or not to be " question :<What kind of logic is that?>.<NM J Roussele>.
I analyse <CG> puzzles like real position,and I agree with <shamot> who said :< I think we should just consider these puzzles just like a routine situation in game , and that is the only way to consider all the moves in your own natural style>.
|Jul-24-10|| ||lentil: Where's the mate after 38. ... Kg5|
|Jul-24-10|| ||OBIT: Hmm, so the move played after 34. Bh6+ Kxh6 35. Qf8+ Kg5 was 36. Qg7, forcing me to justify 36. Nf5! on my own. OK, then, after 36...gxf5 37. Qg7+ Black has three moves:|
37...Kf4 38. Kf2 fe (or 38...Bh4+ 39. g3+ 40. Bg3+ hxg3#) 39. Qg4#
37...Kh4 38. Qh6#
37...Kh5 38. g4+ fg 39. fg+ Kh4 40. Qh6+ Kxg4 41. Kg2! and there is no defense to h3#.
Finally, if the knight is not taken, the fastest mate against most Black moves is 38. Qh6+ Kf6 39. Qh4+ g5 40. Qh6#
|Jul-24-10|| ||al wazir: I got it almost immediately, except that after 34. Bh6+ Kxh6 35. Qf8+ Kg5 I wanted to play 36. h4+. Then follows 36...Kf4 (36...Kxh4 37. Qh6+ Kxg3 38. Ne2#/Qh2#) 37. Qh6+ g5 38. hxg5 Bxg5 39. Nce2+. Ke3 That's as much as I saw before peeking, but with the black on the third rank there has to be a win. (And there is.)|
As for <BOSTER>'s comment about rushing, I don't agree. Even at regulation time (two hours for 40 moves, etc.) you can't spend more than an average of three minutes per move. Since I play speed chess exclusively OTB, even three minutes is out of the question.
|Jul-24-10|| ||OBIT: <lentil>After 38...Kg5 39. Qh6+ Kf6 40. g4! hg (else 41. g5#) 41. Qh4+ g5 42. Qh6#|
|Jul-24-10|| ||OBIT: <al wazir>After 36. h4+, you don't mention 36...Kf6, which appears to be the critical line. It probably wins also (White's position is too good), but it looks like more work than 36. Qg7 or 36. Nf5.|
|Jul-24-10|| ||rodantero: I think black has no useful moves after 38...Kg5 (because 39...Nf6 or f6 will allow Qh6+) while white can set the mat-net as in the following line... 39.Nd1 Nxc4 40.Nf2 h4 (or else Nh3#) 41.Nh3+ Kh5 42.Qh6#.|
|Jul-24-10|| ||Rob Morrison: I think black resigned too soon because mate for white is not yet obvious and there are real ways for white to mess it up. After 39. . . Kh3 the only clear (and quite elegant) mate I can see is 40. Kf2 Kh2 41. Qh6! h4 42. Rh1+! Kxh1 43. Qc1+ Kh2 44. Qg1+ Kh3 45. Qh1 mate.|
|Jul-24-10|| ||patzer2: For today's Saturday puzzle, White's decoy sham sacrifice 34. Bh6+!! puts the helpless King into a mating web after 34...Kxh6 35. Qf8+ Kg5 36. Qg7! .|
As <RandomVisitor> observes, the quickest finish after 36...h5 is mate-in-four with 37.Nf5! h4 (37...Ra8 or any other move yields mate-in-three after 38. h4+ Kf4 39. Ne2+#) 38.Qh6+ Kf6 39.Qxh4+ g5 40.Qh6#.
|Jul-24-10|| ||SufferingBruin: Moves 34 and 35 I got and I think I have plenty of company. Move 36.Qg7, though, I missed. I'm counting this one as wrong. On to the "insane" puzzle on Sunday.|
|Jul-24-10|| ||sLYchoPs: Also assumed it was the continuation 34.Bh6+ Kxh6 35.Qf8+ Kg5 36.h4|
36.Qg7!! Missed it. Wrong for me today :/
|Jul-24-10|| ||stacase: I got the first two moves.|
|Jul-24-10|| ||Nostrils: Dear <BOSTER> in chess there is what is usually called an instinct for danger, a feeling that a position holds something more than is immediately obvious. I feel that in studying these positions players here are developing that instinct, and it is that instinct which will transfer to their game.|
|Jul-24-10|| ||Once: <BOSTER> An excellent, thought-provoking post! Allow me to reply, by way of a typical Oncian analogy.|
I have just returned from a holiday in France. And one thing that struck me was the different attitude that the French and the British have towards bread.
Stick with it: there's some chess coming in a minute, I promise!
Every morning you can see French people walking to the local bakers to buy fresh bad - typically a baguette long enough to give a donkey an inadequacy complex. And they may well do the same thing again in the evening, to fetch bread for their supper. It doesn't matter if they already have bread - after a few hours they refuse to eat it and insist on buying fresh.
Few Brits would do this. Why spend so much time on something which is apparently so mundane? Instead we buy our bread from the supermarket and keep it for days and days. And that means that typical British bread is (a) bland and (b) pumped full of preservatives.
So why do the French buy fresh bread every day, sometimes even twice a day? How come that it is the only shopping for non-electrical items that men seem able to do?
Simply this - because it tastes better. If something is worth doing, it is worth doing well. The Mem sometimes takes an absolute age to get ready to go out of an evening, but I have to admit that the results are worth it.
Of course, there are only 24 hours in the day, whether you are English, French, male, female, grandmaster or patzer. How can we have enough time for the good stuff? As <al wazir> argues, we only have around 2-3 minutes per move.
And again the answer is <relatively> simple - we save time on the less important stuff. Time management is as much about the things that you don't do, or don't do to the same level of effort.
So we don't apportion exactly 3 minutes to every move. We can gain time in the opening, when we are playing from memory. John Nunn's advice of DAUT (Don't Analyse Unnecessary Tactics) also helps here. Flick through the moves of this game and you will see that most of the positions didn't really require a long think.
The trick is to spot when a position needs an RLT - a really long think. We would need an RLT if we about to sacrifice a piece or change the pawn structure or exchange down into an endgame.
CG.com is very realistic in that the positions are taken from real life. But it doesn't help us to train ourselves to manage time. Every puzzle is already flagged up as needing an RLT. The graduated difficulty level also gives us an unfair advantage that we don't get OTB.
One way to get around this is to look for the clues in the position which demand RLT. And in today's puzzle we have the exposed black king, his defenders having deserted to the sunny side of the battlefield. Can you smell that mate is in the air? And surely that is worth a little more time than just the average three minutes per move?
As to the puzzle itself, I largely spotted it through pattern recognition and memory. The position just demands a bishop sac on h6 and the queen parking herself on g7 to push the king towards the white pawns and minor pieces. The Qg7 trick is fairly standard in king hunts to prevent the king from finding an escape route.
|Jul-24-10|| ||OhioChessFan: I understand <BOSTER> point. I'll go so far as to call this an easy Saturday, but only because I knew it was a puzzle position. Bh6+ almost screamed to be played. That's why the occasional traps are so effective. Everyone gets conditioned to expecting a dramatic turn of events in the game and overlook the prosaic move which is best in the position.|
|Jul-24-10|| ||dzechiel: White to move (34?). Material even. "Very Difficult."|
I first looked at this position about an hour ago. I tried all sorts of stuff, but I wasn't getting anywhere. Rather than make a rash decision (like I have several times this week), I decided to allow the position to rattle around in my head while I occupied myself with something else (in this case, reading).
I finally came back to the position now, and have finally hit upon an idea. When I first looked at the position, I considered moves like 34 Bh6+, 34 Nh5+, 34 Nf5+, as well as less forcing moves like 34 Rxb6 and 34 Nb5, but couldn't get anything to work for me.
The problem seems to be that, even though the black king is almost devoid of pieces that can assist in protection, white's rook and knight on c3 are also out of the picture. We need a move that both strips away what remains of the black king's protection, but also allows inroads of white's remaining pieces. White gets the ball rolling with...
34 Bh6+ Kxh6
This was the first move I looked at, but originally I was very concerned that black could decline the proffered bishop with 34...Kf6. That's when I finally saw how white's other pieces (the rook and the knight on c3) would come into play. White plays 35 f4 and now the threat is 35 fxe5+ dxe5 36 Rf1#. Should black take the f-pawn with 35...exf4 then 36 e5+ dxe5 37 Nce4# is checkmate.
35 Qf8+ Kg5 36 Qg7
This is the hard to find move, but white must keep the black king from making his escape via f6. So, what's black to do? White now threatens 37 h4+ Kxh4 (on 37...Kf4 38 Qh6+ g5 39 Qxg5# is mate) 38 Qh6+ Kxg3 39 Qh2#.
I think this must be about it. Time to check.
OK, black can put struggle on with 36...h5, but it looks like he still succumbs. I'm wondering, does 38...Kg5 put up any more resistance that the text? I'm not sure what white's approach is after that move.
|Jul-24-10|| ||OhioChessFan: I won't take credit for all of them, but there are a bunch of quicker mates.|
(36. Nf5 as mentioned by some is mate in 6 while 36. Qg7 is mate in 5)
37. Nf5 is mate in 4
37. Kf2 is mate in 6
38. Kf2 is mate in 5
39. Kf2 is mate in 2
39. Kh2 is mate in 3
|Jul-24-10|| ||OhioChessFan: <dz> yes, 38...Kg5 does hold out longer, though it doesn't matter much.
38...Kg5 39. Qh6+ Kf6 40. g4 Nxd5 41. cxd5 hxg4 42. Qh4+ g5 43. Qh6++|
|Jul-24-10|| ||OhioChessFan: <This was the first move I looked at, but originally I was very concerned that black could decline the proffered bishop with 34...Kf6. >|
I spent more time on that than the game continuation. As it turns out, the position where you push the f pawn is similar to yesterday's puzzle where the e pawn needed to be pushed. FWIW, today I've found the kibitzing more interesting than the game.
|Jul-24-10|| ||David2009: S Estremera Panos vs L Cisneros, 1991 White 34?|
Level material. White has a promising tactical shot: 34 Bh6+ Kxh6 (if 34...Kf6 35 Qh8+ Ke7 36 Qf8+ Kd7 37 Qxf7 wins a Pawn without risk)
First try: 35 Qf8+ Kg5 36 Qg7 threatening 37 h4+ Kxh4 38 Qh6+ Kxg3 39 Ne2#. But 36...h5 and White may not be able to break through.
Second try: 35 Nf5+ gxf5 (looks forced: if 35...Kg4 36 h4+ Kf5 37 Ne2#; if 35...Kh4 36 g4+ Kg4 37 Kf2 threatening 38 Ne2#)
36 Qf8+ Kh4 37 Qg7 and Black cannot get defenders over in time. Time to
I got part of it. Crafty link below to just before the puzzle to check the variations:
click for larger view
Panos vs Cisneros 1991, 33?
My first try does win, my second doesn't (36 Qf8+ Kg6 defends). Interestingly the game line let Black off the hook. 34.Bh6+ Kxh6 35.Qf8+ Kg5 36.Qg7 h5 37.h4+? was a blunder: Kxh4 38.Nf5+ gxf5?? (Kg5!) 39.g3+ 1-0. Correct was 37 Nf5 before h4+: try both variations on Crafty to see why.
In the diagram position, White did well to resist the temptation to play 33 Rxb6 (diverting the BQ from protecting f2) since it activates the BQ and White does not need to capture on f7.
|Jul-24-10|| ||FSR: Panos' 36.Qg7! reminded me of 21.Bg7! in Petrosian vs Pachman, 1961|
|Jul-24-10|| ||whiteshark: I didn't see the forest for the trees.|
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