< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Sep-08-10|| ||WhenHarryMetSally: what ever black does he better do it quick because mate is impending. I"m ashamed to say i couldn't get it today :(|
|Sep-08-10|| ||hedgeh0g: I don't really consider this to be mch of a puzzle. 41...g5 is almost forced.|
|Sep-08-10|| ||chrisowen: It was the spring grind 41..g5 coil king suspension. Cut engine Qh4+ high-way a set lean blow, wisdom for white go a tool down. You see hop shop St.e4 roam no more. Seize a lace dam pent factor Kh3 crushed. Pressing study back theatrical Qg4 gear bottom's up.|
|Sep-08-10|| ||kevin86: Black forstalls the mate and threatens one himself. The en passant capture leads to loss of the queen after Be6+|
|Sep-08-10|| ||OBIT: A few posters have noted Guimard repeated the position once before ending matters with ...g5. Possibly he was hoping Cherta would play 41. Qh1?, when ...Qh4+ is brutal. I think the most likely explanation, however, is that Guimard was toying with him. GMs have highly sadistic natures and will do this sometimes. :)|
For another example of this, there is Fischer vs Spassky, 1972 from the 1972 Fischer-Spassky match. Note Fischer's pointless rook moves 34. R1f2 and 35. R2f3, which do nothing more than sadistically demonstrate that Spassky has no useful moves left. Fischer does get to the point on his next move, setting up a decisive breakthrough that wins the game quickly.
|Sep-08-10|| ||David2009: P Cherta vs Guimard, 1946 Black 41...?|
One checkmate threat deserves another: 41 ...g5! threatens Qh4#. If 42 fxg6 Bxe4 43 g7+ Kg8 and White is busted.
Time to check:
Yes. Good decision to resign by White.
|Sep-08-10|| ||DarthStapler: Got it|
|Sep-08-10|| ||turbo231: Missed it I'm getting a little worse each day. Maybe I need to start drinking coffee.|
|Sep-08-10|| ||YouRang: Made somewhat easier to find by the presence of white's mate threat, but still nice. |
41...g5! resourcefully solves black's problem and presents white with a problems that have no good solution.
|Sep-08-10|| ||rubato: is only my "java" opening the games at the second or third attempt?|
|Sep-08-10|| ||Once: <rubato> I've had that a few times. Try loading the latest version of Java - that may fix it.|
|Sep-08-10|| ||ashvalkyrie: am i missing something, or after fxg, black has Be6+,winning queen for a bishop, instead of BxB ?|
|Sep-08-10|| ||ajk68: There has been some question why the moves were repeated. There was probably a time control at 40 moves. It might be that once Guimard had more time to think, he saw it.|
|Sep-08-10|| ||Once: <ashvalkyrie: am i missing something, or after fxg, black has Be6+,winning queen for a bishop, instead of BxB ?>|
There's actually not much to choose between the two moves. After 42. fxg6 Be6+ white has to give up his queen pretty quickly to delay the mate.
But black also mates with 42...Bxe4
click for larger view
Black is threatening both Bf5+ and Rd3+. White will need to give up loads of material to delay mate.
After 42. fxg6, Fritzie prefers 42. Be6+ because he says it is mate in 11. But his second choice is 42. Bxe4 which is mate in 16, and that's not too shabby. I went for Be6+ as it seemed the cleaner kill, although I think either move is fine as a solution.
<ajk68: There was probably a time control at 40 moves> That was what I was thinking too. Looks like it might have been a mutual time scramble.
|Sep-08-10|| ||ashvalkyrie: now when i think about it, seems you are right. thing is, i never really considered BxB as a continuation after fxg..|
|Sep-08-10|| ||Once: <ashvalkyrie: i never really considered BxB as a continuation after fxg..>|
Nor me - I was surprised when folk started mentioning it.
I guess it all depends on what you saw when you first looked at the puzzle position:
click for larger view
Some folks will look at this and focus on the vulnerable and stalemated white king on h3. And these folks (which I think includes both you and me) will play Be6+ at the first opportunity. Always look to check a stalemated king, right?
But others will look at this position and see instead the inadequately protected white bishop on e4. The only thing which is saving this bishop is white's threat of Qxg7#. As soon as the Qxg7# threat is removed, these folks will think first of Bxe4 or Qxe4.
And that, for me, illustrates the role of luck in chess. If your eye happens to light on the right factor you will find the winning combination a heck of a lot sooner than if you get fixated on something else. Today, either move is fine, but later in the week...
|Sep-08-10|| ||Marmot PFL: <OBIT> Most likely black repeated moves just to make time control before looking for the win.|
|Sep-08-10|| ||ZUGZWANG67: Black has 2 extra pawns. He threatens to win a piece at e4 but is also threatened of mate. |
I think 41...g5, with the idea of 42...Qh4+ mate, is the solution. I don't see anything better for W than 42.fxg6 e.p. Bxe4 43.g7+ Kg8, when B wins the WB. An important point is that the heavy W pieces don't have access to either f8, g8 or h8.
Time to check.
|Sep-08-10|| ||TheChessGuy: A useful defensive "top kill" (with apologies to any resident of the Gulf Coast).|
|Sep-08-10|| ||Justawoodpusher: I first recognised that ♕e3+ would lead to a perpetual and only because I was not satified with it I found g5! Well also Guimard needed a second thought obviously :-)|
|Sep-08-10|| ||wals: g5 was the killer move and I didn't get it, damn, blast and bugger.|
White's path to destruction.
=(0.00):16.f3. Better, Nxe4, +0.46.
(-0.60):18.e3. Better, Bxf4, =0.00.
(-0.94):24.d5. Better, fxe6,-0.74.
(-2.17):34.Qf3.Better, Rc6, -0.75.
Black stumbled: the third best move,
(-0.89):37...Rxd5. Better, g5, -3.64, or Bxd5, -2.53.
White not to be outdone, responded:-
(-5.42):38.Rxd5. Better, Bxd5, -0.92.
(-11.53):39.Rg1. The best move was Bxd5, -5.42. So White was really scratching and no doubt an unhappy chappie.
|Sep-08-10|| ||EXIDE: I got this move accidentally when I was searching for a way for black to save the game ! It did not occur to me that black could actually win. I think black lucked out.|
|Sep-08-10|| ||LIFE Master AJ: hee-hee I got it. (But it took at least a couple of minutes, initailly I was completely stumped.) |
The solution is: 41...g5! Black threatens a mate on h4. And if 42.PxP/g6 en passant (?); then 42...Be6+; is the quietus. ( I have always wanted to use that word - but in its proper context.)
***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****
<<<<<<<<g5 was the killer move> and I didn't get it,> damn, blast and bugger.>
White's path to destruction.>
=(0.00):16.f3. Better, Nxe4, +0.46.>
(-0.60):18.e3. Better, Bxf4, =0.00.>
(-0.94):24.d5. Better, fxe6,-0.74.>
(-2.17):34.Qf3.Better, Rc6, -0.75.>
<<Black stumbled: the third best move,>
(-0.89):37...Rxd5. Better, g5, -3.64, or Bxd5, -2.53.>>
<<<White not to be outdone, responded:->
(-5.42):38.Rxd5. Better, Bxd5, -0.92.>
(-11.53):39.Rg1. The best move was Bxd5, -5.42.>
<So White was really scratching and no doubt an unhappy chappie.>>
Nice analysis, I did not check it, but I have come to rely on your accuarcy. My initial impression ... just playing through the game ... was that neither side found the best move at several points.
|Sep-08-10|| ||VincentL: "Medium Easy".
Black is two pawns up but white is threatening immediate mate on g7.
First I wanted to try 41....Qh4+. 42. Kxh4 (only legal move) g4+. But it doesn't work.
41....Qxf5+ 42- Bxf5 Bxg2+ 43. Rxb2 also fails.
Also 41.... Qe3+ does not work.
After 41.....Qg5 white continues 42. Qxg5 hxg5 43- Bxd4 Rxd4 44. Rxg5 and although black
is a pawn up the game is far from won.
But now I think I see it.
41....g5 ! Now black is threatening mate, with Qh4. The only reasonable way to stop it is
with Qg3, Qg4 or Qc2. But after exchange of queens, all these result in the loss of the bishop
Sometimes I see the correct move straight away, but today I went up all the wrong avenues
before seeing the right path.
Time to check.
|Sep-09-10|| ||Formula7: White is threatening 42.Qxg7# and 42.Bxd5, but Black can win with 41...g5! Now the only way White can prevent 42...Qh4# is to either give up his bishop, or his queen after 42.fxg6 e.p. Be6+. Time to check.|
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