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|Oct-10-13|| ||Nick46: <Honza Cervenka: <Abdel Irada: <LTJ>: As a chessplayer, Kasparov is among the greatest GMs who've ever played, but as a politician, I think he is more of a C player.> Or maybe "N" player. He speaks and acts like a Bill Kristol's hack from now defunct PNAC. True U.S. neocon with Russian passport and great ambitions in Russian politics is itself grotesque squared.>|
WE ALL SEEM TO AGREE.
Apr-09-13 Nick46: <Phony Benoni: Boy, this Kasparov guy wasn't that good a player.>
Still, I would give him the benefit of the doubt in his (even now) having superior chess acumen, as opposed to his whizzgig political pretentions.
|Oct-10-13|| ||LIFE Master AJ: 17.Rb6! looks to be decisive, and I am sure that I have seen this game before ...|
|Oct-10-13|| ||doubledrooks: I went for 17. Qa5, which Fritz (according to <Once>) rates as +2.88 for White.|
|Oct-10-13|| ||chrisowen: Tools of the trade for each in knightd7?
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|Oct-10-13|| ||kevin86: I missed this one. I cpouldn't find the right sacrifice.|
|Oct-10-13|| ||Whitehat1963: Wish I could say I found this one. Brilliant play. Black has nothing to do that doesn't lose right away.|
|Oct-10-13|| ||al wazir: I found 17. Rb6, but I still don't see why black couldn't play 13...Qxa2.|
|Oct-10-13|| ||goodevans: Well that took all of 20 seconds. I expect to be tested a wee bit harder on a Thursday.|
|Oct-10-13|| ||M.Hassan: <al wazir: I found 17. Rb6, but I still don't see why black couldn't play 13...Qxa2.>|
My understanding is that the Queen moved to c5 to prevent...Nc7 giving a check with fork. Therefore 13...Qxa2 move could not be done.
|Oct-10-13|| ||FSR: <al wazir: ... I still don't see why black couldn't play 13...Qxa2.>|
It doesn't lose instantly as far as I can see, but after 14.Rb3 Black is totally busted.
|Oct-10-13|| ||Penguincw: I was thinking of 17.Nd6+, but white doesn't have time to give check on the e-file.|
|Oct-10-13|| ||Patriot: Interesting problem!
17...Nxb6 18.Nf6+ and no matter the response, 19.Qd8#
17...Qxb6 18.Nxb6 and 18...Nxb6 19.Qd8# OR 18...Bxb7 19.Qxd7#
I don't see a response that doesn't outright lose.
|Oct-10-13|| ||Ratt Boy: Thank you, <chrisowen>. I couldn't have said it better myself.|
(Whatever it is that you said.)
|Oct-10-13|| ||Patriot: What's even more interesting is why some chose 17.Rb6 and other's chose 17.Qa5 - both of which win.|
I chose 17.Rb6 after combining motifs. I learned that many tactics arise from "seeing through" the pieces to other pieces or squares whenever there are "line pieces" (queen, bishop, rook). So I saw through to d8 as a mating square if only I could distract the knight from d7 and move white's knight with check.
Then I noticed another motif - trapping the queen with 17.Rb6. It doesn't really trap it but it does severely limit its squares. That's when I noticed the side effect, 17...Qa4 18.Nc7#.
So then it was a matter of calculating the critical moves after 17.Rb6.
17.Qa5 is a nice one move mate threat, basic to the core. After that it would be a matter of calculating how to stop mate or if there are any counter-threats (at least a check). This just didn't fall in line with my logic and assessment, although it's a perfectly good move!
|Oct-10-13|| ||morfishine: <Patriot> This is an interesting comment:<What's even more interesting is why some chose 17.Rb6 and other's chose 17.Qa5 - both of which win> |
I first analyzed <17.Qa5> and eventually concluded White was winning in about 10-moves or so. But then I got to thinking "Is there a quicker win?... This seems a little drawn out"
So I fiddled with 17.Rb6 & 17.Nb6 & even 17.Na5 before it finally hit me: <17.Rb6> wins on the spot. Total time spent was about 15 minutes
I guess it all comes down to parameters and what one wants to devote time-wise before admitting "I missed it". In this case, if it were 5-minutes and the goal was simply to find a winning line, any line, I solved this problem following 17.Qa5.
But if the point were to find the absolute best move (17.Rb6) in 5-minutes or less, then I missed it. It all comes down to what standards or parameters one places on one self
BTW: Nice post, you nailed it, while I slowly hammered it in with tired arms and a heavy hammer :)
|Oct-10-13|| ||OhioChessFan: I went with Qa5 like several others.|
|Oct-10-13|| ||Patriot: <morf> Thanks! So you looked for the best move, whereas I found 17.Rb6 and looked no further--another difference in approach. I could have spent a little time looking for a better win, but I usually don't if it is clearly winning (i.e. maybe 2 pawns or a piece at least). But like you said, that also depends on the time remaining. Usually I don't like to spend much time on these.|
|Oct-10-13|| ||Abdel Irada: Apropos of <chrisowen>, it's interesting to note that he hasn't always posted in his present style; e.g.: Kibitzer's Café. In fact, so far his posts from 2006 all look fairly conventional; e.g.: Search Kibitzing.|
|Oct-10-13|| ||Abdel Irada: On further research, it appears that <chrisowen>'s transition from conventional to ... er, different ... posting occurred around May of 2010, and it seems to have been sporadic but progressive.|
|Oct-11-13|| ||FSR: Houdini 3 assesses 17.Rb6 as +12.29 (roughly equal to being up all four minor pieces), and 17.Qa5 as +9.07 (roughly equal to being a queen up). Either one is utterly decisive, and I'm pretty sure that Van Wely would have instantly resigned after 17.Qa5, as he did after 17.Rb6. So IMO those who chose 17.Qa5 are entitled to full credit.|
|Oct-11-13|| ||morfishine: <Patriot> Its hard to imagine a better, faster or more decisive win that <17.Rb6> :)|
I sure wish I focused on that move first
|Oct-11-13|| ||offramp: Black must have been very disappointed with his play in this game.|
|Oct-11-13|| ||Shams: <offramp> Well, clearly Loek was not thrilled to have forgotten his own published analysis (!) refuting Black's play here. But as is typical of him, van Wely put a positive spin on things. From <crazybird>'s post earlier in the comments: |
<Obviously he was unhappy with what happened, but even here Van Wely managed to see a silver lining. As he had also lost in a rather dubious manner in Round 4 against Anish Giri, Nakamura’s main rival for the moment for the Amber ticket, he concluded: <‘Now at least I gave both guys a free point, they’re equal again.’>>
|Jan-20-14|| ||MarkFinan: I was reminded of this game by someone the other day, and I see my last comment just over 3yr ago was "this is like fools mate for GM's', but I really think that this is what Nakamura would do to someone like me.. not this GM! Nakamura must have been thinking that van Wely had sent his loekalike (get it pun guys!?!) along to play because I used to see people on fics do this to players who are a lot weaker than them. I think van Wely mustn't have played chess in a while or was drunk or hadn't slept in a week, because this is so so poor from black! I think Nakamura is a brilliant and entertaining chess player but it shouldn't be *this easy* when one GM plays another. I'm going to go on record now and say.... I'd do better than this against him, I'd make 20 moves. I wouldn't get destroyed like this, this fast. |
|Nov-03-15|| ||oscargon: brilliant!|
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