|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Jun-07-11
 | | Once: That's interesting. I thought the puzzle was dead after 23. Qxd7, but others have found reason to calculate further. Let's take a look.
click for larger viewAfter 23. Qxd7, we have two lines to look at - <phony>'s 23...Bc6 and <Jamboree>'s 23...Bd8. Do either of them worry us? White has sacrificed two minor pieces to win the black queen. If he has to give away another one, that makes the trade broadly equal rather than game-winning. Let's look at 23...Bc6 first.
click for larger viewAs <phony> points out, the key move here is to give check with 24. Qe6+ Kf8. And now we have many ways to save the knight. 25. Qxe5 grabs a pawn, removes the threat from the knight and counter-attacks the Bc5. Or there's <scormus>'s 25. Ng6+ to force the exchange of knight for bishop. Or plain old 25. Nd3 to dance the knight out of harm's way, counterattack the Bc5 and incidentally prevent annoying desperadoes with Bxf2+. Nope, nothing to worry us there. Turn our attention to 23...Bc8 
click for larger viewThis is a little more interesting because it prevents Qe6+. But again white has many ways to respond. There's <Jamboree>'s 24. Qc7, <gprice>'s 24. Qxe8+ or the prosaic 24. Qxb5. For that matter, white can also play 24. Qd3 or 24. Qd2. The point is that black cannot immediately win the knight because his a8 rook is hanging. And so he has to start with 24...Rxa1 25. Rxa1. And that brings white's rook to the now uncontested a file, which in turn means that the Bc5 is going to get picked off by the nimble white queen. |
 |
| Jun-07-11 | | gmalino: this took a while to see the open a-file!
but the action is in the centre, blacks queen is hanging, which allows: 21.Ne5! Qd8 (or c8/c7)
22.Bxf7+ Kf8
23.Bxe7 dxe5
24.Bh5
wins the exchange
maybe there is more than this?
21.Rxa8 Rxa8
22.Ne5 Qc7
23.Nxf7 Kf7
stupid me!
Chess can be easy if you look or think correctly:
The forced line is:
21.Bxf7+
a) ......Kxf7
22.Ne5+! wins the Queen for the Knight
b)......Kf8
22.Bxe8 wins a Rook
c'est ca! |
|
Jun-07-11
 | | scormus: <... 25. Ng6+ to force the exchange of knight for bishop.> ... doesnt it pick up another piece? |
|
Jun-07-11
| | Once: <scormus> Black does have the desperado of Bxf2+ which gets him something, but you are right it picks up a second piece. |
|
Jun-07-11
 | | gropek: <consul It's remarkable the fact that Black can't decline the sacrifice: 26. Bxf7 .. Kf8
27. Ng6+ .. Kxf7
28. N?e5+
>
26. Bxf7 Kf8
27. Ng6+ Nxg6 |
|
| Jun-07-11 | | CHESSTTCAMPS: In this middlegame position, black has the two bishops and split pawns on the queenside. With the knight on f6 instead of e7, it looks about even. As it is, the knight impedes protection of the weak spot f7. Therefore, white should take the opportunity to grab material with 21.Bf7+! and now: A) 21... Kxf7? 22.Ne5+ dxe5 23.Qxd7 Rxa1 (exf4 24.Qxb7) 24.Rxa1 Bc8 (Bc6 25.Qe6+ forces mate) 25.Qxb5 wins Q+2Ps for 2 minor pieces. B) 21... Kh8 22.Bxe8 with a material advantage of exchange + pawn and ongoing play against the weakened black king position. |
|
| Jun-07-11 | | consul: <gropek
26. Bxf7 Kf8
27. Ng6+ Nxg6>
You're right, sorry.
But
26. Bxf7 .. Kf8
27. Ne5
click for larger viewNow, White is threatening Ne6# and after
27 .. Qc8
28. Ne6+ .. Qxe6
29. Bxe6 .. dxe5
30. Qxb5 double attack, White stays up a Queen for two minor pieces. 
click for larger view |
|
| Jun-07-11 | | zb2cr: 21. Bxf7+, Kxf7; 22. Ne5+ forks the Queen and leaves Black down a Queen for two minor pieces. |
|
Jun-07-11
 | | sevenseaman: <consul> and <gropek> Bxf7+ is move no.21 for White. You have it as no.26?
One cannot follow the analysis without knowing the intervening 5 moves? |
|
| Jun-07-11 | | consul: No, gropek copied it from my first typo, and i copied from it in my turn. |
|
Jun-07-11
 | | Patriot: I wanted to play 21.Bxf7+ Kxf7 22.Qb3+ and noticed several possible defenses including 22...d5 or 22...Kf6 (without working it out further) and looked to see if there is anything obviously better than 22.Qb3+. That's when 22.Ne5+ came to mind. That was good enough for me this morning. But I do think people are correct to calculate this a bit further because the position is not quiescent. |
|
Jun-07-11
 | | David2009: M Seps vs Y Naydenova, 2010 White 21? Is this a spoiler? The 'shot' 21 Bxf7+ Kxf7 22 Qb3+ Ke6! (not 22...d5?? Ne5+) may not seem to work. Instead 21 Rad1 piles on the pressure...WAIT! 21 Bxf7+ Kxf7 22 Ne5+ wins Q for BN, else wins the exchange.
Time to check:
====
Kudos to <bright1>. <Infohunter>: perhaps Black was hoping for 22...Qb3+? my initial thought. <Once> excellent post as usual. At move 19 as Black, I am sure I would have made the same (thematic) blunder. My next thought is 19...Bb6 (to swap Rooks whilst keeping the position closed) when White has 20 Bxf7+ Kxf7 21 Qb3+! which works since 21...d5 loses the Queen and 21...Ke6 succumbs to d5+. Crafty End Game Trainer finds 19...Rf8 and if 20.Rad1 Rae8, whilst if 20 Bd3 g6 and the position is uncomfortable for Black but not yet lost. Links to play these variations out as White: (A) White to move 19? (White plays 19 Nf4)
click for larger view Crafty EGT link
http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...
(B) White to move 20? after 19...Bb6 to try out the 20 Bxf7+ variations
click for larger view Link http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...
Postscript: after 19...Bb6 20.Bxf7+ the EGT finds 20...Kxf7 21.Qb3+ Nd5 22.Nxd5 Bxd5 23.Qxd5+ Qe6 to reach with White to play
click for larger view
when White is a Pawn up but the win (if it exists) is too difficult for me to find unaided. |
|
| Jun-07-11 | | Fuegoverde: 21 Bxf7+! and if ...Kxf7?, 22Ne5+ winning the Q |
|
Jun-07-11
 | | agb2002: From a Spanish game, I suspect.
White has a bishop and a knight for the bishop pair.
The black queen and the spot f7 are defenseless. Therefore, 21.Bxf7+: A) 21... Kxf7 22.Ne5+
A.1) 22... dxe5 23.Qxd7
A.1.a) 24... exf4 25.Qxb7 + - [Q+P vs B+N].
A.1.b) 24... Bc6 25.Qe6+ Kf8 26.Ng6+ Nxg6 27.Qxc6 + - with the double threat 28.Qxc5 and 28.Qxg6. A.2) 22... Kg8 23.Nxd7 Ba7 24.Qxd6 + - [Q+N+2P vs 2B]. B) 21... Kf8 22.Ne5 Qc8 (22... Qc7 23.Ne6#; 22... Rxa1 23.Rxa1 doesn't seem to chang anything) 23.Ne6+ Qxe6 24.Bxe6 dxe5 25.Qf3+ Nf5 26.Qxf5+ Ke7 27.Qf7+ Kd6(8) 28.Qd7#. C) 21... Kh8 22.Ne5
C.1) 22... Qc8 23.Neg6+ Nxg6 (23... Kh7 24.e5) 24.Nxg6+ Kh7 25.e5 with many threats (26.Nf8+ Kh8 27.Qh7#, 26.Bxe8, 26.exd6, etc.). C.2) 22... Qc7 23.Neg6+ Nxg6 (23... Kh7 24.e5) 24.Nxg6+ Kh7 25.Bxe8 Rxe8 26.e5 + - [R+N+P vs 2B]. D) 21... Kh7 22.e5+
D.1) 22... Kh8 23.Ng6+ Nxg6 24.Qxg6 Rf8 25.Ng5 hxg5 26.Qh5#. D.2) 22... g6 23.Nxg6 Nxg6 24.Qxg6+ Kh8 25.Qxh6#.
Other option is 21.Ne5 with similar variations but 21.Bxf7+ is more forcing. |
|
Jun-07-11
 | | kevin86: The first move forces the king to take or the exchange will be lost. The second is deadlier;black must lose the queen by a fork or pin. |
|
Jun-07-11
 | | Gilmoy: I think this puzzle demonstrates the maxim <LQDO>, loose queens drop off ... |
|
| Jun-07-11 | | Akavall: <Jamboree: There's actually some tactics details that need to be worked out -- the queen win is not a cut-and-dried victory until you foresee this aspect: After 21. Bxf7 Kxf7 22. Ne5+ dxe5 23. Qxd7 Bc8!, and suddenly white has no more checks; she's already down two pieces for the queen, and for the moment her own queen AND a knight are under attack. If she's sloppy, she'll move the queen somewhere random, allow 24. ... exf4, and now it's three minor pieces for the queen -- not so simple after all. Only one move wins: 24. Qc7!, counterattacking the black bishop, and also as a bonus x-ray attacking the pawn that willl capture the knight on f4, so that after, say, 24. ... Bxf2+ 25. Kxf2 exf4 White then has 26. Qxf4+, cementing the victory. Can't give yourself full points unless you saw 24. Qc7!> Good point, but 24.Qxb5 seems to be doing the same thing (mainly attacking bishop on c5) as 24.Qc7 and it captures a pawn. Now white will end up with queen for two minors, and they will just have to push b-pawn forward, that should be a simple win. |
|
| Jun-07-11 | | psmith: <Once> Interesting commentary as usual. But both players are women. Why "he" and "his" in your discussion? Take a look at the tournament they were playing in! |
|
Jun-07-11
| | Once: <psmith> Ah, yes, but this was the famous incident of gender-cheating when two male chess players pretended to be women in order to win the 11th World University Championship for women. I am surprised that you didn't recognise it ;-) All was going well until, by some terrible quirk of fate, they were drawn to play each other. Neither knowing that the other was indeed positively rather than negatively endowed in the underpants department. Fate must have been in a very tricksy mood that day. For it transpired that each of these men-dressed-as-women fell instantly and utterly in love with the other, believing the other to be of the opposite gender. But this was not one of those gentle love affairs where a shy glance is followed by a gentle touch of hands, then a dozen trips to restaurants, art galleries, walks in the park, before - blushingly - the first kiss. No, it wasn't one of those gentle love affairs.
Instead it was a mad passionate affair where there eyes met, a spark crackled between them and they instantly had to find a quiet room to rip each other's clothes off in a mutual frenzy of hot passion and ... ... oops.
The tournament organisers discovered their attempt to cheat some time after the event. It was rumoured that the game between them had ended prematurely because both players had been so eager to finish the chess and find a quiet room where they could ... but you know the rest. Alas, justice was never served. The two chess players ran screaming from the tournament hall, never to be seen again. The tournament organisers were not able to administer a punishment, because they never did discover the identity of the would-be gender-transgressing cheats. Then again, we can safely imagine that the shock of unexpected discovery would have been sufficient punishment for both of them. At least, that's one version of events. The other version is that yours truly was too busy examining variations and dreaming up silly stories that I didn't notice the two combatants were packing shirt-potatoes. Apols in advance for anyone I have just managed to offend. It's been a long day. |
|
| Jun-07-11 | | wals: Rybka 4 x 64
Looking good 15.a4 =0.20.
15...Qd7 not in top five -5
18.cxd4 2nd best -1
18...Ne7 2nd best -1
19...c5 not in top five -5
20...Bxc5 not in top five -5
21...Kxf7 2nd best -1
Score Black 17. White 1.
Black resigned after 22.Ne5+, +6.18. |
|
| Jun-07-11 | | azax: This game illustrates a lesson I've learned from many King's Gambit games: "If you can play Bxf7+, check to see if it wins at the beginning of each of your moves." |
|
| Jun-07-11 | | WhiteRook48: I'm a bad puzzle solver, didn't even consider Bxf7+ |
|
| Jun-07-11 | | newton296: no one saw my crazy winning line with a double rook sac for white to get in e5 e6. actually strong move!
click for larger viewAnalysis by Fritz 12:
1.  (3.40): 3...Qxe6 4.Bxe6 fxe6 5.Nxe6 Nd5 6.Qg6 Re7 2. (3.40): 3...fxe6 4.Bxe6+ Qxe6 5.Nxe6 Nd5 6.Qg6 Re7 7.Nf3 Nc7 8.Nxc5 |
|
Jun-07-11
 | | M.Hassan: "Easy" White to play 21.?
White has a Knight for a Bishop
21.Bxf7+ Kxf7
22.Ne5+ Forking King and Queen
<if 22.....dxe5 23.Qxd7>
This must be it |
|
Jun-08-11
 | | patzer2: <David 2009> The position you set up for us after the variation 19...Bb6,
click for larger viewwhich is solved with the fascinating demolition sham sacrifice 20. Bxf7+!! Kxf7 21. Qb3+ , is one I found to be complex, instructive and interesting. After 19...Bb6 20. Bxf7+! Kxf7 21. Qb3+
click for larger viewthe reply 21...Nd5, giving back the piece to defend, is practically forced as 21...Kf6?? 
click for larger viewresults in mate-in-three after 22. e5+! dxe5 (22...Kf5 23. Qf7#) 23. dxe5+ Kf5 24. Qf7#. If 21...Kf8,
click for larger viewthen 22. Ne6+ Kg8 23. Rxa8! (not 23. Nc5+? Bd5  ) 23...Rxa8 24. Nc5+ Bd5
25. Qxd5+! Nxd5 26. Nxd7 Nf4 27. Nxb6 cxb6 28. Re3 gives White a strong and likely winning endgame advantage. In this variation, after your 19...Bb6 20.Bxf7+!! Kxf7 21.Qb3+ Nd5, 
click for larger viewinstead of your immediate 22. Nxd5, White can improve with 22. Rxa8! when he wins after 22...Rxa8 23. Nxd5 Qe6! 24. Qxb5 Ra5 25. Qd3! 
click for larger viewwhen White will be able to mount a decisive attack on the weakly protected King. For example, from the position above, play might continue 25...Bxd5 26. exd5 Qd7 27. Nh4! . 
click for larger viewFrom here, after 27. Nh4!, play might continue 27...Ra8 28. Qg6+ Kf8 (28...Kg8 29. Nf5 ) 29. Re4! Bxd4 30. Rxd4 . |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
sac: 21.Bxf7+