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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 3 ·
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| May-31-12 | | hugogomes: Great weekend puzzle starting at move 23! White to play. |
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Jun-23-12
 | | Infohunter: Boy--that's giving him the old one-two! |
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| Jun-23-12 | | MountainMatt: Shakil Abu Sufian Stevens? |
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Jun-23-12
 | | M.Hassan: "Very Difficult" White to play 23.?
White is a pawn up.
23.Nxc8! Bxf1
24.Nxe7+ Kh8 forced
25.Rc5 Qd8
26.Nc6 Qa8
27.Kxf1
Not bad!. White gave his Queen and got a Rook + 2 Bishops for it and he was a pawn ahead before so, I would say White wins because materialwise he is ahead. Time to check |
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| Jun-23-12 | | rilkefan: Was about to post <M.Hassan>'s line. Which runs into 25...Bb5, and it's still a game after 26.a4, though black may not be able to hold up the pawn. 25.Bd2 briefly flitted through my mind, maybe I would have played it with the position in front of me. |
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Jun-23-12
 | | al wazir: After 25...Bc4, is it really over? If 26. Rxc4, then 26...Qxd2. If 26. Be1, then, e.g., 26...Qa7 27. Nc6 Qa6 28. Nb4 Qb5 29. Rac1 Bd5, etc. White has  + + vs.  . Now what?FWIW, my plan was to play 25. Rc5, and if 25...Bb5, then 26. Rb1 Qa7 (26...Bb8? 27. Nc6) 27. Nc8, which I think wins a piece. |
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| Jun-23-12 | | psmith: <al wazir> I don't understand "26...Bb8?" in your line. But what if 26.... Qd8 (so that if 27. Nc6 Bxc6)? Doesn't that hold? |
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Jun-23-12
| | al wazir: I meant 26...Rb8. I was just about to repost. |
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Jun-23-12
 | | sevenseaman: White has a P extra.
White has both his Q and R under threat. The reasonable course seems to be; 23. Qxa6 Qxa6 24. Nxc8 White already has two pieces for the Q and a threat on Black's dsb. But that's neither here nor there. How 'bout the Saturday's 'Very Difficult' puzzle. Would it entail wagering the Q?? Let us try;
<23. Nxc8 Bxf1 24. Nxe7+ Kh8 25. Bd2> with a threat on Black Q as the R lifts. Logically Black needs to abandon the B and move his Q out of the skewer. Clearly if Black Q is left in situ 26. Rc8 will be devastating. Black's R (mate ensuing) as well as the Q will be under the cosh. It should be 1-0. Of course Black could always resist greed and not take the White Q but the natural thing is to grab it. That only would mean that I am right in putting my Q on the line. I think this ought to be the solution. Very tough but I cannot help feeling already good and confident. Its another matter that details of further play are still to be worked out but I will take the liberty of doing that after I confirm my cheeky foray. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aah....that's really it. What absolute bliss! But what are those 2 red Rs doing? Oh the exclaims. |
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| Jun-23-12 | | rilkefan: <<al wazir>: After 25...Bc4, is it really over?> 26.Rac1 and the back rank decides, or white gets in Nc6 and picks up the bishop. |
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Jun-23-12
| | al wazir: <rilkefan:> If 26. Rac1, then 26...h6, and the back rank mate is gone, but 27. Nc6 is curtains. |
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| Jun-23-12 | | Aas: I actually found 25.Bd2, but I didn't see the more obvious 25.Rc5 at all. Bd2 just seemed like a saturday-move. <al wazir: After 25...Bc4, is it really over?> I think the correct response then would be 26.Rac1, now 26..Qa7 won't work because 27.Rxc4 Qxe7 runs into 28.Bb4 skewering the black queen and rook. |
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Jun-23-12
 | | Abdel Irada: White, already a pawn ahead, wins at least the exchange with 23. xc8!. This leaves Black with four more-or-less reasonable rejoinders: (1) 23. ... xf1 (the most testing); 24. xe7+,  h8; 25. c5  . Since the bishop on f1 can't be saved, and the knight on e7 can, White has +++ for a , and should win easily. (2) 23. ...xc3; 24. xe7+, h8; 25. c1 leaves White a piece and a pawn to the good. (3) 23. ...xc8; 24. xc8+, xc8, and when the smoke of battle clears, we find White leading by the exchange and a pawn. (4) 23. ...xc8; 24. c4, and again White leads by the exchange and a pawn. |
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Jun-23-12
 | | scormus: I'll agree it's very difficult. I thought it had to be 23 Nxc8 Bxf1 24 Nxe7 Kh8+ but it wasnt clear to me how it went on and I didn't spot 25 Bd2. In fact I went with 25 Rc5 thinking W ends up R, 2 minors and a pawn for the Q plus more active position. Now I look more closely I see B could then prevent losing the piece with 25 ... Bb5, as the WN is vulnerable (e.g. 26 Rb1 Qa7 etc.) So 25 Bd2 is the way to secure the advatage and deserves at least one ! Well done those who got it. I'm not so comfortable with these scrappy tactical exchanges. |
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Jun-23-12
| | sevenseaman: 25. Bd2 is the hardest move to find. |
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| Jun-23-12 | | gofer: Well, black doesn't seem to have a back rank weakness, but if you look five moves
ahead down one possible path then maybe there is one. So perhaps white can exchange
the queen for R+2B and an attack! Very interesting!
<23 Nxc8! ...>
23 ... Qxc3 24 Nxe7+ Kh8 25 Qc1
23 ... Bxc8 white is an exchange up
<23 ... Bxf8>
<24 Nxe7+ Kh8>
<25 Rc5 ...>
Black is okay if he can just extracate the bishop, but how? 25 ... Bb5 26 Rb1
25 ... Qd8/Qa7 26 Nc6
<25 ... Qa6>
Now I am in two minds; 1) keep the a pawn and 2) take the bishop. If I can achieve both then that would be a certain win. Time to check how white managed this and how black didn't! ~~~
Ahh much simpler than I thought! But really quite difficult to see! |
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| Jun-23-12 | | Robespierre: Can someone clarify what occurs after...
25. Bd2 and (for example) Qd4
Is the result...
26. KxB QxN -- and then we have a game where White has a protected pawn with a fairly simple path to creating a 2d queen? |
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| Jun-23-12 | | LoveThatJoker: <23. Nxc8 Bxf1>
(23...Bxc8 24. Qc4 White is up the exchange and a pawn ; 23...Rxc8 24. Rxc8+ Bxc8 25. Qc4 and once again, White is up the exchange and a pawn ; 23...Qxc3 24. Nxe7+ Kh8 25. Qc1 Qd3/...Qa5 26. Qc5! and White is up a piece and a pawn ) <24. Nxe7+ Kh8 25. Rc5 Bb5> (25...Qb6 26. Rxf1 ; 25...Qa7/...Qd8 26. Nc6 and the B on f1 will soon be captured and White will have at least a R,N & B for the Q for a material advantage  to ) <26. Rb1 Qd8>
[26...Rb8? 27. Nc6 ; 26...Qa7 27. Nc8! Qa6 (27...Qa8 28. Nb6 ; 27...Qb8 28. Rbxb5 ; 27...Qb7 28. Nd6 ) 28. Rbxb5 and White wins as 28...Rxc8 29. Rxc8+ Qxc8 30. Bf4! is decisive] <27. Rcxb5 Qxe7 28. d5!> and White wins. For example (from bad to good),
a) 28...Qxa3 29. Bc5
b) 28...h6 29. Bc5 Q moves 30. Bxf8
c) 28...Rc8 29. Rb8! Qe8 30. Rxc8 Qxc8 31. Bf4 and 32. Rb8 d) 28...Rd8/...Rg8 29. Bc5 and 30. d6
LTJ |
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Jun-23-12
 | | sorokahdeen: Bd2?! Brutal! Brilliant!
That's the kind of move you wish your hand would make! Brutal! |
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| Jun-23-12 | | LoveThatJoker: Although I didn't go with 25. Bd2, I found a full winning alternate solution with 25. Rc5 Bb5 26. Rb1. Full point for today.
I would also like to add that I like this line very much, as it is a clear technical win that is reminiscent of the 14th World Chess Champion, and one of my favourites, Vladimir Kramnik! LTJ
PS. One notable addition that I would like to bring to attention here, that I of course saw prior to posting my solution but did not write down at the time, is 23. Nxc8 Bxf1 24. Nxe7+ Kh8 25. Rc5 Bb5 26. Rb1 Qxa3
Position after 26...Qxa3
click for larger viewHere 27. Rbxb5 wins for White!
Position after 27. Rbxb5
click for larger view |
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| Jun-23-12 | | galdur: Seems pretty forced. White emerges with winning material after 23.Nxc8 Bxf1 24.Ne7 Kh8 25.Rc5 Bb5 26.Rb1. |
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| Jun-23-12 | | amr.bin.adnan: 25.c5, what if after d8 or a7 ? it's not so easy to win for white.
also there is not so easy after 24.. xc8
and an anternative resistance against d2 is d8, for example c8 c8, c8 d4!, f1 c3 and maybe even black wins. after 25.. d8 what's the white's best move? |
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Jun-23-12
 | | patzer2: <rilkefan: <<al wazir>: After 25...Bc4, is it really over?>
26.Rac1 and the back rank decides, or white gets in Nc6 and picks up the bishop.> Right! After 25...Bc4 26. Rac1! is the only clear winning continuation. After 25...Bc4 26. Rac1!, Black has nothing better than 26...h6 27. Nc6! Qb6 28. Rxc4 with White picking off the Bishop. No better for Black is 25...Bc4 26. Rac1! Qd8 (26...Ba6 27. Rc8! allows a decisive discovered attack) 27. Rxc4 Qxe7 28. Bb4! with a skewer that wins a piece due to the weak back rank. |
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Jun-23-12
| | patzer2: After 25. Bd2!! the discovered attack threat 26. Rc1 is decisive. Best play, according to my Fritz 12 run, goes 25. Bd2!! Qb6 26. Rxf1 Qxd4 27. Rfc1! h6 (27...Qxd2? 28. Rc8! ) 28. Be3 (2.75 @ 20 depth). However, from a practical perspective, I prefer <al wazir>'s clever resource 25...Bc4!?, which requires White to find the strong reply 25. Bd2!! Bc4 26. Rac1! (not 26. Rc2? Qa4 =). |
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| Jun-23-12 | | galdur: <amr.bin.adnan> Yeah, you´re right. I see now that he played Bd2, retaining the knight. My faulty line might be good for a draw. After 25...Qd8 26.Nc6 followed by Rxf1 and white has decisive material. |
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