< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·
|Sep-23-12|| ||vinidivici: Failed on Sunday!!
I thought about 17.Nf5 exf5
and after that white windmilling, and get the material advantages.
But i dont know though is my line sound enough, just thought about that less than 5 minutes.
But the real answer is very good enough for Sunday, failed this week just this day, but now i got it.
|Sep-23-12|| ||JRMenezes: <newzild: With respect, I don't think you can claim to solve these puzzles just by finding the key.>|
I analyzed all possible variations till move 23. You only need to calculate till move 23 to see it's a win.
|Sep-23-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: One final note:
I would like to say that I posted my "follow-up post" <before> having read <newzild>'s posts - which I actually just finished doing.
I see that we both went in for the 19. Rxg7+! idea, and that we both found 19...Kh8! - on our own, after having posted our respective solution posts.
If anyone is interested, I am starting a two-pronged scoring system for the daily puzzle.
The first one is called "Baseball".
The second one is called "Formal".
Monday = Single
Tuesday = Single
Wednesday = Double
Thursday = Double/Triple
Friday = Triple/Home Run
Saturday = Home Run
Sunday = Home Run
This week, my only fault was not addressing certain important Black defenses on a "Home Run Friday"; but I did get the main idea and didn't blunder in any of my analysis that day. So my work that day was good enough for a Single.
I'm on a 7 consecutive hit streak.
6.75 out of 7 (0.25 Deduction for not addressing important defenses for Black on Friday).
Kindly note that I sincerely care about the daily puzzle, it has been a most important resource to assist in my chess improvement - and I'm just trying to assist in making it fun, and take some of the "heaviness" off it.
If anyone cares to take part in this, then that would be awesome. You are your own umpire, but you can always consult with your fellow umpires/solvers if you need help with a certain call.
Scoring starts as of this week (i.e., September 17-23).
|Sep-23-12|| ||gofer: First we have to decide whether to play Qxh5 immediately or whether to move
Nd4 first and although the choice isn't clear the problem with <17 Nb5> is
it doesn't ensure that the mate threat exists, where as <17 Qxh5> makes
certain that it is there!
<17 Qxh5 ...>
Black cannot afford to give up a piece, so has to accept.
<17 ... gxh5>
<18 Rg3+ ...>
There is no time like the present! Why delay Rg3+? Lets leave the knight
move even later until we know exactly where we are!
18 ... Bg5
19 Rxg5+ Kh8
20 Nxe6+ Ne5/f6
18 ... Kh8
19 Nxe6+ Ne5/f6
<18 ... Bg7>
Secondly, we have to decide whether we are going for mate or material gain?
<Materialism> is a disgusting problem in our society, but OTB it is normally
an acceptable raison d'Ítre...
The immediate <19 Rxg7+> may be a little premature as black avoids the
re-capture and simply plays Kh8 causing significant problems for white!
<19 Nxe6! ...>
19 ... fxe6
20 Rxg7+ Kh8
19 ... Rxe6
20 Rxg7+ Kh8
21 Rxf7+! Rf6
22 Bxf6+ Nxf6
So the knight is immune, but what else? White is threatening Rxg7+
with devastating effect! Sweeping off anything on the seventh rank.
It all looks too brutal!
Hmmm, I missed the all important <21 ... Re5> as a defense. This left
white with a lot more to do. On paper white is only slightly ahead,
but white makes the two pawn advantage count very quickly and very
beautifully. How many of us would manage that in just seven moves from
here? Not me!
click for larger view
|Sep-23-12|| ||Once: An interesting sequence of kibitzes:
<JRMenezes>: "Answer is Qxh5. Not really an insane puzzle."
<newzild>: "With respect, I don't think you can claim to solve these puzzles just by finding the key"
<JRMenezes>: "I analyzed all possible variations till move 23. You only need to calculate till move 23 to see it's a win."
In a way, both newzild and JRMenezes are right, but they are slightly talking at cross purposes.
Most people wouldn't consider a Sunday POTD solved if they've only spotted the first move. I say "most people" because someone starting out in the game would still consider it an achievement to work out the key move. We've all got to start somewhere.
As newzild rightly points out, you really need to see through the tricky defences to make sure that the move is playable.
But ... there is absolutely nothing which says that you have to post an exhaustive analysis to "prove" to anyone that you've solved the puzzle. That would fill these pages up with a lot of repetitive posts. And anyway the only competition is with yourself.
<JRMenezes> analysed to move 23 but didn't feel the need to write it down or boast about it. Seems a perfectly reasonable approach to me.
The POTD itself is fairly easy compared to most sundays. I opted for the 19. Nxe6 line as played in the game, but Fritzie says that 19. Rxg7+ is virtually identical. Black really doesn't want to respond to 19. Rxg7 with 19...Kxg7 20. Nxe6+ Kg8 21. Nxc7. Instead he is forced into 19...Kh8 20. Nxe6 Rxe6 and we have transposed right back into the 19. Nxe6 line.
|Sep-23-12|| ||Ian McGarrett: I figured 17.Qxh5 gxh5 18.Rg3+ Bg7 as in the game but deviated in my analysis with 19.Rxg7+ Kxg7 20. Nxe6+ Kg8 21. Nxc7, leaving white with two minors for a rook and black with a shattered pawn position. The game continuation, although it might be more accurate, struck me as unnecessarily complicated.|
|Sep-23-12|| ||UnsoundHero: This problem is harder than it looks because White shouldn't play Rxg7+ too early: 17 Qxh5 gxh5 18 Rg3+ Bg7 19 Rxg7+ Kh8 20 Nxe6 Qb8 21 Rxf7+ Ne5 22 Rxb7 Qxb7 23 Rxd6 Qf7 24 Bxe5+ Kg8 25 Nxf8 Rxe5.|
19 Nxe6 is better because if now 19...Qb8 20 Nxg7 with too many threats. I like the line 20...h4 21 Nf5+ hxg3 22 Nh6 mate.
|Sep-23-12|| ||pawn to QB4: <Answer is Qxh5. Not really an insane puzzle.
But here's something on the lighter side:
What do u get when u cross Anaconda with King Kong?> OK, I don't know - what do u get?
I agree on the lesser point: Sunday puzzles used to be well beyond my horizons, which they need to be if they're going to challenge some of the people who come here. This was one where the first move I looked at works - I thought it must be a spoiler.
|Sep-23-12|| ||morfishine: <17.Qxh5+ gxh5 18.Rg3+ Bg7 19.Rxg7+Kxg7 20.Nxe6++ Kg8>|
(If 20...Kg6 21.e5+ f5 22.exf6+ Kf7 23.Nxc7 [23.Ng5+ looks exciting])
<21.Nxc7 Re7 22.f3>
For an exchange, White is up a piece plus a pawn, and has much the better endgame
click for larger view
|Sep-23-12|| ||newzild: <Unsound hero White shouldn't play Rxg7+ too early: 17 Qxh5 gxh5 18 Rg3+ Bg7 19 Rxg7+ Kh8 20 Nxe6 Qb8 21 Rxf7+ Ne5 22 Rxb7 Qxb7 23 Rxd6 Qf7 24 Bxe5+ Kg8 25 Nxf8 Rxe5.>|
Interesting, but instead of 22. Rxb7, White has 22. Nxf8 Rxf8 (otherwise 23. f4 wins the Ne5) 23. Re7! (a key nuance: if 23. Rxf8 Qxf8 then White can't play 24. f4) and Black loses material because he cannot allow the deadly 24. Bxe5 dxe5 25. Rdd7. If he moves his Rf8 to protect against the threatened mate, then White wins the knight by playing f4.
|Sep-23-12|| ||Abulherar: white's best move is:17.Qxh5! (Q sac)
Because:17...gxh5 18.Rg3+ Bg7(18...Kh8 19.Nxe6+! and Black's Queen is lost)
19.Rxg7+! Kh8 (19...Kxg7 20.Nxe6++)
20.Nxe6! Rxe6 (20...fxe6 21.Rxd7+)
21.Rxf7+ Re5 22.Bxe5+ dxe5 23.Rdxd7(White has the upper hand)
|Sep-23-12|| ||MrSpock: After 25. ... Qc7 instead of Qa3 as in the game, White has a long way to the full point.|
|Sep-23-12|| ||JRMenezes: <Once:<JRMenezes> analysed to move 23 but didn't feel the need to write it down or boast about it. Seems a perfectly reasonable approach to me.> I didn't post my analysis as I thought it was a very simple puzzle and all the moves were forced till move 23. Rxd7. Anyone good in tactics will immediately see that Qxh5 opens up the g-file for a check by The rook, thus freeing the long diagonal of the dark squared bishop at the same time. This chess problem is not as hard as some of the earlier Sunday puzzles. In my opinion a truly insane problem was posted on 2-Sep-2012 and where I had posted a complete analysis which was accurate up to a certain point.|
|Sep-23-12|| ||JRMenezes: <Once: As newzild rightly points out, you really need to see through the tricky defences to make sure that the move is playable.> I'd like to add one more thing. If I hadn't seen through all the tricky defences I wouldn't have said Qxh5 as Qxh5 doesn't lead to an immediate win. It leads to a material advantage.|
|Sep-23-12|| ||Dr. J: The position after White's 23rd move may be won, but it's still very difficult to win. Have at it: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...|
|Sep-23-12|| ||hugogomes: White is far from winning after 26.. bxc5.|
|Sep-23-12|| ||JRMenezes: < hugogomes: White is far from winning after 26.. bxc5.>|
If 26... bxc5 27. Rd8!
|Sep-23-12|| ||tivrfoa: For everyone who saw yesterday puzzle solution, the problem today is not insane.
Same pattern: sacrifice the Queen, check with Rook ...
Black is in trouble because after Nxe6, the Bishop in B2 threatens mate and the black Queen is attacked.
17. white to play and win
Material is even
17. Qxh5 gxh5
18. Rg3+ Bg7
19. Nxe6 fxe6?? (19. ... Rxe6! as in the game is much better and I missed. With this move there's a lot more game to play.)
|Sep-23-12|| ||harish22: found Qh5. However got lost in the line.
1. Qh5 gh5
2. Rg3+ Bg7.
After 3. .. e5
4. Ng7 Kh8
white regains material. But a win does not seem in sight.
|Sep-23-12|| ||Patriot: 17.Qxh5 gxh5 18.Rg3+
A) 18...Bg7 19.Rxg7+ Kxg7 20.Nf5++ Kg8 21.Nh6#
B) 18...Bg7 19.Rxg7+ Kh8 -- Usually this is dropping a piece for nothing, but white has already invested a queen so this is completely viable to analyze further; the alternative is clearly worse but white has to make sure he isn't just losing here. This line makes me question the whole thing. For example, 20.Nxe6 Rxe6 21.Rxf7+ Re5 (else a possible draw) 22.Bxe5+ dxe5 23.R1xd7 Rxf7 24.Rxc7 Rxc7 maybe
This makes me think I need to move the knight first, like Nf5 or Nb5.
A) 17.Nb5 axb5 18.Qxh5 gxh5 19.Rg3+ Bg7 20.Rxg7+ Kh8 and I think white is lost.
B) 17.Nf5 doesn't look any better.
I'm not sure what I'm missing here.
|Sep-23-12|| ||Patriot: My line was very similar but not the same. 19.Rxg7+ is also a good way to proceed, but not for the reason I analyzed: 19...Kxg7 20.Nf5+? Kg6 -- How did I miss that? But Houdini says 20.Nxe6+ wins.|
I got very close within my first variation B. I wasn't completely sure about the evaluation, and I did look at 23.R7xd7 but didn't record it as I thought it was most likely lost.
|Sep-23-12|| ||WhiteRook48: Oh. I said, 17 Qxh5 gxh5 18 Rg3+ Bg7 19 Rxg7+ Kxg7 20 Nxe6+ followed by 21 Nxc7. Not the best, but the best I could find.|
|Sep-23-12|| ||Patriot: I just noticed another flaw: <For example, 20.Nxe6 Rxe6 21.Rxf7+ Re5 (else a possible draw)> No draw; if 21...Kg8 22.Rg7+ Kh8 23.Rxd7+ blasts him out of the water! I only saw the possibility of a draw and didn't analyze it because black is the one trying to prove white's line doesn't work! So 21...Re5 became the only option at that point.|
|Sep-23-12|| ||Zatrikion: 17.Qxh5! gxh5 <(or else Black is a piece down)>
The other 2 options lose immediately:
a) 18..Bg5 19.Rxg5+ Kh8 20.Nxe6+ f6 21.Bxf6+ R(N)xf6 22.Nxc7, White is a piece and two pawns up
b) 18..Kh8 20.Nxe6+ f6 21.Nxc7, White is a piece and a pawn up
Back in the main line:
19.Nxe6!! Q is on threat, so either Black moves the Q or takes the N.
A) If Black takes the N with:
21.Rxf7+ Nf6 <(21..Rg8 22.Kg7+ Kh8 23.Rxd7+ and Rxc7 1-0)>
22.Rxc7, White 1 piece, 2P up!
21.Rxd7+ and Rxc7, White 2 pieces up!
B) If Black moves the Q:
19..Qc8 <(better square than the other 2 alternatives Qc6, Qb8)>
21.Rxf7+ Nf6 <(21..Kg8, 22.Rg7+ Kh8 23.Rxd7+ Kg8 24.Rg7+ and Rxb7 and finally Rxc8, Black is getting slaughtered!)>
24.Nxf8 Qa8 <(where else to be secure? If 24..Rxf8 25.Rc7+ Rxf6 26.Rxc8 Bxc8, White 1 piece, 2P up)>
26.Bb2 and the discovered checks will go on until Q is captured 1-0
|Sep-23-12|| ||The Last Straw: I got only 17.Qxh5.|
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