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| May-23-11 | | dx9293: This is exactly what Carlsen wanted, and lots of people are falling for it: to not play (so no risk of losing), and then for casual fans to say "Well, if Carlsen were playing..." It's so transparent and yet it works... |
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May-23-11
 | | tpstar: <the matches are too short with too high a chance of random results> Disagree. If these finalists are so afraid of losing that they plan to play short draws and take their chances in the tiebreaks, then there is no practical difference between four games and eight games here. Gelfand and Grischuk had silenced all the critics with their first two games, fighting draws to the last, and now these two short draws are a major bummer. The format is not a mockery; the players are making a mockery of the format. |
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| May-23-11 | | Marmot PFL: <Disagree. If these finalists are so afraid of losing that they plan to play short draws and take their chances in the tiebreaks, then there is no practical difference between four games and eight games here.> True enough, but not everyone plays that way. Four games is just a warmup, not a true test of strength. Zukertort vs Steinitz 1886 3-1 in favor of Zukertort after 4 games, but Steinitz won Steinitz vs Chigorin 1889 2-2 after 4 games (sorry guys, time for rapids) Steinitz vs Gunsberg 1890/91, Steinitz vs Chigorin 1892, Lasker vs Steinitz 1894, Lasker vs Schlechter 1910, Lasker vs Capablanca 1921, Capablanca vs Alekhine 1927, Alekhine vs Bogoljubov 1929, all were tied after 4 games as were many other matches Alekhine vs Euwe 1935 Euwe trailed 3-1 after 4 games but won the match Botvinnik vs Petrosian 1963 after losing game 1 Petrosian didn't win until game 5 and eneded up winning by 3 points Fischer vs Spassky 1972 Fischer didn't catch up until game 5 (although both losses were unnecessary) Fischer vs Karpov, 1975 Fischer forfeits when his demand for unlimited match is turned down. FIDE was right, but these short matches are just as bad as unlimited ones. Kasparov vs Karpov, 1984 If this had been 12 or 24 games, Karpov would have won (deservedly). Most likely the last ever unlimited match. |
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| May-23-11 | | Sokrates: Another disgraceful draw. What kind of reputation are they giving the game? Apart from the competitive disaster they seem to launch the notion that you waste energy to win a game unless the opening offers you a decisive advantage. It saddens me to see that these players, who should boldly urge for the honour of challenging the world champion, haven't got any personal honour, not personal pride. They play like cautious business investors, carefully weighing their risk on a scale, where only the results matters. I do hope that Anand will severely crush any of those two miserable contestants. This is Grischuk's 6th, SIXTH, drawing game under 20 moves in this circle so far. And he should represent the youth, the rebellions, claiming the throne. Oh what a shame! |
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May-23-11
 | | Peligroso Patzer: <Sokrates: *** They play like cautious business investors, carefully weighing their risk on a scale, where only the results matters.
***>
Given the match conditions and the very high stakes, the players cannot really be blamed. The organizers, on the other hand, deserve to be excoriated unmercifully. (I would also subject them to harsh verbal criticism.) Among the consequences of such short match schedules is that the players are like gunslingers in the Wild West of olden days: blink once at the wrong time, and you're dead. This situation creates an incentive to be cautious. It is probably psychologically easier to postpone the day of reckoning, and at least have the solace (if you are the one who loses the match) that your decisve blunder occurred under unreasonable time constraints. |
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| May-23-11 | | OneArmedScissor: Look... if you guys honestly want the candidates system to improve, you need to hope Grischuk wins in the blitz phase. That's the only way to show FIDE et al just how absurd the new candidates system is.
Think about it.... if Grischuk wins in the blitz phase, he will be the world championship challenger who didn't win a single classical game in order to qualify to be the contender.
FIDE will look ridiculous for imposing such a system. just my 2 cents... |
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May-23-11
 | | kingscrusher: Maybe given the importance of blitz chess as seperate from Rapid, perhaps the English Chess Federation (ECF) can consider a blitz rating too. I think that might be really good fun to have. |
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| May-23-11 | | lost in space: hey <onearmed>, I like your 2 cents. Go Grischuk, go and beat Gelfand in Blitz (in Rapid it would be too early) |
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| May-23-11 | | lost in space: I don't know if this is possible any longer, but +wouldn't it be even more perfect if Grischuk would be the challenger of Anand without winning a chess game with classical time control and without winning a rapid?? Go Grischuk, go, beat them all in Blitz.
There is no difference any longer in classical and blitz, all is the same. |
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| May-23-11 | | lost in space: <I do hope that Anand will severely crush any of those two miserable contestants.> I would love to agree with you. But Anand would exactly play like this under the given circumstances. Go Grishuck, go! Beat them all in Blitz. |
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May-23-11
 | | HeMateMe: If Gelfand get beat in rapids, he will have only himself to blame. |
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May-23-11
| | HeMateMe: Shades of Tal/Botvinnik 1960. Can't you just feel the electricity in the air? It's too bad Gata kamsky isn't in the final. He would have understood the urgency of searching for a win in every game. |
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| May-23-11 | | ozmikey: <OneArmedScissor> <Think about it.... if Grischuk wins in the blitz phase, he will be the world championship challenger who didn't win a single classical game in order to qualify to be the contender.> A very good point.
This candidates system is farcical. |
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| May-23-11 | | TheMacMan: Grischuk and Gelfand digusts me! and the whole game of chess! they have no class! these short draws are disgusting to me, they will never be champions |
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| May-23-11 | | polarmis: Final version of Sergey Shipov's commentary on the game: http://www.chessintranslation.com/2... |
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| May-23-11 | | fab4: Gelfand is a great player..
As is grischuk..
This is a great match and will go down in history as such .. |
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| May-23-11 | | fab4: < HeMateMe >
Are you for real? You really comparing Botvinnik v Tal to this ??? |
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| May-23-11 | | sevenseaman: In match play premeditated draws look to be the most perfected art form! Carlsen must be having a laugh on the Candidates format. |
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| May-23-11 | | fab4: <fab4: Gelfand is a great player.. As is grischuk..
This is a great match and will go down in history as such > This site is so square I'm in the unfortunate position of having to clarify my own post. Tongue is still being firmly removed from my cheek as I write this... |
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| May-24-11 | | ajile: <polarmis: Final version of Sergey Shipov's commentary on the game:
http://www.chessintranslation.com/2...;
"Shipov ended his report by saying that “the next draw will take place tomorrow”! I’ll again be translating the commentary on game 5." |
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| May-24-11 | | sevenseaman: Sarcastic but spicy wit from Shipov. He must be a tired man counting the waves on the beach. |
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May-24-11
 | | LIFE Master AJ: An 18- move draw is NOT much of a game ... especially when they had previously played a 14-mover!!! |
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| May-24-11 | | Rook e2: This game is no fun. I was waiting for black to play ..f5 somewhere |
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| May-24-11 | | TheMacMan: all GMs that agree to prearranged draws are less than infidels! |
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| May-24-11 | | VincentL: The general consensus is that provision for 10 classical games would reduce the incentive to play for draws until the rapid/blitz stages. However I think that players like Grischuk would be well capable of securing draws in 10 classical games. The 1984 Karpov-Kasparov World Championship match had one sequence of 18 draws and another of 15 draws. The Sofia rules (or something similar) or perhaps continuing until one player has scored 2 or 3 wins in classical games would appear to be the only solution. |
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