|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Mar-10-12
 | | whiteshark: Game Collection: 000_-> Middlegames with opposite-coloured Bi~s |
 |
| Mar-10-12 | | Penguincw: Fairly interesting. White sacs a queen in exchange for some material, but the big reason is the king being mated in mid-board. |
|
Mar-10-12
 | | scormus: <Memethecat ... refusing the Q first time round> should be illegal move to do that :) |
|
| Mar-10-12 | | psmith: 17. e6 kind of jumps out at me after a few seconds.
17…gxh5 18. exf7+ Kd7 19. Rad1+ Kc7 20. Rxd8 Rgxd8 21. f8/Q Rxf8 22. gxf8/Q Rxf8 23. Rxf8. White is up a Rook. 17…fxe6 18. Qxg6+ Kd7 19. Rad1+ wins the Queen.
17…f6 (or f5) 18. Qxg6#.
17…Rxg7 18. exf7+ Rxf7 (18…Kf8 19. Bh6) 19. Rxf7 Kxf7 20. Rf1+ Kxg7 22. Bd4+ wins. 17… Bd5 18. Rxf7 and it seems hopeless for Black.
I hope I haven’t missed anything. |
|
| Mar-10-12 | | psmith: Oh, that was silly of me... The Queen's still hanging in the Rxg7 line, of course. |
|
| Mar-10-12 | | psmith: And in the last line too.... But honesty compels me not to delete my attempt! |
|
Mar-10-12
 | | Fusilli: I went for 17.e6 Bd5 18.exf7+ Bxf7 19.Qf4. There if 19...Rxg7 I am pretty sure 20.Qh6 wins. If 19...Bd5 20.Rad1 Qa5 21.Qf8+ Ke7 22.Qf7 threatening the bishop and forcing the Black king to march forward to defend it. There I lazily decided that it was not necessary to analyze any further, as White will capture the e7 (if he wants to) and will keep the threatening g7 pawn, enough to justify 17.e6. |
|
Mar-10-12
 | | David2009: Najdorf vs Frenkel, 1926 White 17? 17.e6! GOOT! seems to win material in all variations. Main line: 17...hxg4 18.exf7+ Kd7 19.Rad1+ Kc7 20.Rxd8 Rcxd8 21.f8=Q! and White ends up Q for R ahead.
Time to
check:
====
I missed the better defence found in the game which gives White more chances to go wrong. I also missed 17...Bd5! which seems best of all. 
click for larger view
is the puzzle position, with Crafty End Game Trainer link http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...
The EGT answers 17.e6 with 17...Bd5 and the win is unclear. Time to read the kibitzes. A quick browse reveals nothing really clear-cut against 17...bd5. Time to post and come back to this later. |
|
Mar-10-12
 | | James D Flynn: 17.e6 hxg4 18.exf7+ Kd7 19.Rad1+ Kc7 20.Rxd8 Rgxd8 21.f8(Q) Rxf8 22. gxf8(Q) Rxf8 23.Rxf8 and White is a R up with an easy win. However, Black is not forced to take the Q on move 17 e.g
17.e6 Rxg7 18.Rxf7 hxg4 19.Rxg7 Kf8 20.Bh6 and there is no answer to the threat of 21.Rxg6+ Ke8 22.Rg8# if instead 18. …Rxf7 19.Qxg6 Qd5 20.Rf1 Qxg2+ 21.Qxg2 Bxg2 22.exf7+ wins a piece.
Now for the game. |
|
Mar-10-12
 | | Patriot: Material is even.
Black threatens 17...hxg4.
The only thing I'm seeing here is 17.e6.
17.e6 hxg4 18.exf7+ Kd7 19.Rad1+ Kc7 20.Rxd8 Rxd8 21.f8=Q Rgxf8 22.gxf8=Q Rxf8 (not 22.Rxf8 Bd5) 23.Rxf8  17.e6 Rxg7 18.exf7+ Rxf7 19.Qxg6 |
|
Mar-10-12
 | | Memethecat: <scormus> We are of the same mind. I reckon we would've had that game, we both made the right moves, but black procrastinated so we missed the puzzle, but we'd of had the game. ^.^ |
|
Mar-10-12
 | | kevin86: Wow a queen sac...Looks like a Monday puzzle on steroids... |
|
Mar-10-12
| | Patriot: I missed a defense in the second line: 17.e6 Rxg7 18.exf7+? Kf8. 18.Rxf7 looks much cleaner. |
|
| Mar-10-12 | | villageboy: 17 e6, Bd5 18. exf7+, Bxf7, 19. Qf4, Rf7 (19...Qd5, 20. Qh6 Threatening the Doubling of the Rook on the f file. shoudl win) 20. Qh6, Rg8 21 Qh7 seem to be strong for white. Here 20... Kf8 21 Bd4 Looks winning. |
|
Mar-10-12
| | David2009: Najdorf vs Frenkel, 1926 postscript: I should add that <sevenseaman> had already posted a Crafty link. I was unable to beat Crafty EGT unaided, so fired up Fritz 12 which beat Crafty EGT convincingly by direct attack. Rather thah post that, here's a link
to the puzzle colours-reversed after 17.e6 
click for larger view to try and defend. Crafty finds a different win from Fritz in the colours-reversed position, winning on material by capturing
the weak Queen side pawns (starting with the unguarded a pawn). Have fun exploring the defensive options. Interactive link: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t... |
|
Mar-10-12
| | scormus: <Patriot I missed a defense in the second line: 17.e6 Rxg7 18.exf7+? Kf8. 18.Rxf7 looks much cleaner> Don't say "exf7?", that was my choice after 17 ... Rxg7 Of course 18 Rxf7 is better, though I didnt see at first just how decisive. 18 exf7 wins easily enough as well (... Kf8 19 Qg3 and B will not be able to stop Bh6). But its a blunt instrument way to win compared with the rapier cut actually played. |
|
Mar-10-12
 | | Jimfromprovidence: I’m going to piggyback on others and use the line 17.e6 Bd5 18.exf7+ Bxf7 19.Qf4. Rxg7.
click for larger viewNow comes the subtle move 20 Rad1! (It's better than 20 Qh6 first, because of 20…Rg8 21 Qh7 Bd5!, below) 
click for larger view So, after 20 Rad1 Qc7 21 Qh6 Rg8 22 Qh7, black cannot retreat the bishop.
click for larger view
Still, it’s a very complicated position. Black needs to follow with 22...e5 to avoid mate or loss of major material. |
|
| Mar-10-12 | | BOSTER: <Phony Benoni> <The first order of business was spending about 3 minutes to figure out how that pawn got to g7>. In game playing by Tal you should see such tricks.
17.e6 by <instinct> how would say somebody. |
|
Mar-10-12
| | Patriot: <scormus> Good point! You're right, it still wins so 18.exf7+ doesn't deserve a (?). I guess my main point is I missed a defense that could potentially refute white. And there's also more to 18...Rxf7 19.Qxg6. At least it's not " " right away. 19...Bd5 has to be considered and 19...Qd5 is also another potential way to respond. |
|
Mar-10-12
| | Patriot: <Jimfromprovidence> 22...Be6 looks like another defense in your last position. At least I'm not seeing the win. |
|
Mar-10-12
 | | agb2002: The material is even.
Black threatens 17... hxg4 and 17... Rxg7.
These threats suggest the maneuver 17.Qg5 Rxg7 18.Qh6 Rg8 (18... Kf8 19.Qh8+ Rg8 20.Bh6+) 19.Qh7 Rf8 20.Bh6. However, Black can play 17... Qd5 18.Rad1 Qe4 creating some counterchances. A better option seems to be 17.e6:
A) 17... hxg4 18.exf7+ Kd7 19.Rad1+ Kc7 20.Rxd8 Rgxd8 (20... Rxg7 21.Rxc8+ and 22.f8=Q) 21.f8=Q Rxf8 22.gxf8=Q (22.Rxf8 Bd5) 22... Rxf8 23.Rxf8 + - [R vs B+P]. B) 17... f5(6) 18.Qxg6#.
C) 17... fxe6 18.Qxg6+ Kd7 19.Rad1+, etc.
D) 17... Rxg7 18.Rxf7
D.1) 18... hxg4 19.Rxg7 Kf8 20.Bh6 with the threat 21.Rxg6+ Ke8 22.Rg8#. D.2) 18... Rxf7 19.Qxg6 Qd5 20.Qxf7+ Kd7(8) 21.Rad1, etc. D.3) 18... Qd5 19.Rxg7 Kf8 20.Qxg6 + -.
D.4) 18... Rg8 19.Raf1 Qd5 (19... hxg4 20.Bh6 Qd1 21.Rxd1) 20.Rf8+ Rxf8 21.Qxg6+ Kd8 (21... Rf7 22.Qg8+) 22.Rxf8+ Kc7 23.Bf4+ Kb6 24.Rxc8 Qd1+ 25.Kf2 + -. E) 17... Bd5 18.exf7+ Bxf7 19.Qf3
E.1) 19... Rxg7 20.Bd4 Rh7 21.Qxb7 and White's position looks much better. E.2) 19... Qd5 20.Qxd5 Bxd5 21.Bh6 Bf7 22.Rf2 e6 23.Raf1 Rc7 24.h4 with the idea Rf6 and Rxg6. |
|
Mar-10-12
 | | Whitehat1963: I guess I really missed by suggesting this as a Wednesday puzzle, huh? |
|
Mar-10-12
 | | chrisowen: Segregate Investigate Castigate!
I lessee inform arrived Najdorf in choosing,
Crooked armistice for e6 bh6 qg5 qxc8.
In select it... I plumped for try hone at ago good queen push in cat e6 my little prince looking to disturb f7 aint it stride in ty son any taking back then down rf8+ rd1 anarch in kd7 light perform desired win. Little granted bd5 rook g8 aha the big wanger g5 same again culpable for e6. In racing away it old decision time given up on g5 h6 too slow for my liking chef. At e6 fresh eg ardent it rich in really it narrow might stone eddied e6! Nitpick in goods even rookxg7 if the pxg4 alive woosh exf7+ d7 rad1+ so Najdorf in clean mind for one sac in g4 rxg7 chilling black deff in con it driving the brace go off the ball etc in form again ever great admiration. |
|
| Mar-10-12 | | LoveThatJoker: Awesome! A Najdorf puzzle!
<17. e6! Rxg7>
[17...f6/f5?? 18. Qxg6#; 17...Qd5 18. exf7+ Kd8 (18...Qxf7 19. Qxc8#) 19. Qxc8+ Kxc8 20. fxg8+ Qxg8 21. Rf8+ wins; 17...Bd5 18. exf7+ (18. Qe4!? - hoping for 18...Bxe4? 19. exf7+ Kd7 20. Rad1+ Bd3 21. f8=Q Rxf8 22. gxf8=Q when White is winning, but - 18...Bxe6 and although White is still better it's not clear how he will win) 18...Bxf7 19. Qf3 Qd5 (19...Bd5?! 20. Qf8+! Kd7 21. Rad1 Kc6 - 21...e6?? 22. Rf7+ Kc6 23. Qc5# - 22. Qxd8 Rcxd8 23. Bh6 with the clear advantage) 20. Bh6 and White has all the winning chances in the position; 17...hxg4 18. exf7+ Kd7 19. Rad1+ Kc7 20. Rxd8 Ranyxd8 21. f8=Q wins] <18. exf7+ Kf8>
[18...Rxf7 19. Qxg6 Bd5 (19...Qd5? 20. Rad1 ) 20. Rad1 e6 (20...Rc6 21. Qg8+ Kd7 22. Rxd5+ wins) 21. Qg8+ Kd7 (21...Ke7 22. Bg5+ wins) 22. Rxf7+ wins] <19. Qxc8!! Qxc8 20. Bh6 Bd5>
[20...Qg4? 21. Bxg7+ Kxg7 22. f8=Q+ Kh7 23. Rf7#; 20...e5 (or any strict waiting appraoch) 21. Rf2 Bd5 (21...Ke7 22. Bxg7 and 23. f8=Q cannot be stopped; 21...Qc7 22. Raf1 ) 22. Raf1!! Bxf7 23. Rxf7+ Kg8 (best) 24. Rxg7+ Kh8 25. Rf8+! Qxf8 26. Rh7+ wins] <21. Bxg7+ Kxg7 22. f8=Q+ Qxf8 23. Rxf8 Kxf8 24. Kf2> and White wins due to having a R, open lines for the R, an active K, and the ability to place his pawns on dark squares. LTJ
PS. It should be noted that 17...Bd5 is Black's best try where although White still has all the winning chances, Black has averted immediate disaster. |
|
| Mar-10-12 | | LoveThatJoker: <scormus> I am also of the opinion that 17. e6 Rxg7 18. exf7+ is better. I am sincerely hoping that everyone here will appreciate my line of 17. e6 Rxg7 18. exf7+ Kf8 19. Qxc8!! 
click for larger view19...Qxc8 20. Bh6
click for larger viewLTJ |
|
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
sac: 18.Rxf7