< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 102 OF 331 ·
|Aug-23-11|| ||Waitaka: <castledweller> I completely agree with you.|
|Aug-23-11|| ||DrMAL: <castledweller> Well, main line actually RUNS OUT around move 14 or so, it's not a matter of "deviation" there and white has no cause to anyway. At that point the the idea of a "deviation" is basically gone since, by definition, it's no longer the opening, it's a matter then of how to best make plans from it in the middle game. Sorry you got scared off, I would never suggest anything other than sound, as 4...b6 certainly is.|
|Aug-23-11|| ||DrMAL: <Garech> It's an interesting idea (assuming Qc2) but a LOT riskier than 4...b6 here. White is way behind in K-side development but it is very easy to do so (e.g., via 8.Nh3) and launch an attack against black's weakened king. It is not something I would even compare against what I proposed here. What is proposed is not some big deviation it is simply going down a very stable sideline less played that will likely transpose anyway.|
|Aug-23-11|| ||morfishine: Good news! <MindCtrol9> Has checked in:
Very Good News Indeed|
|Aug-23-11|| ||Waitaka: <Pre-voting forum> |
What would you vote after...
a) 4...O-O <5.Nf3>
5...c5 (4 votes)
b) 4...O-O <5.Bg5>
5...c5 (3 votes)
5...h6 (1 vote)
c) 4...O-O <5.e4>
5...d5 (2 votes)
5...d6 (2 votes)
5...c5 (1 vote)
d) 4...c5 <5.dxc5>
5...O-O (3 votes)
**** Please, vote at my forum ****
Voter so far: <Marmot PFL>, <WinKing>, <echector>, <imag>, <DrMAL>, <frogbert>
Take a look at my forum to see who is voting on what and why.
**** Please, vote at my forum ****
|Aug-23-11|| ||castledweller: Part Two of earlier post -
Following this opening blindly to the midgame is probably a big mistake -especially with this GM who knows these lines so well. Why?
We need a plan that incorporates:
a)what the programs suggest to us and
b)what a rewiew of past CC games tell us
but that uses NEITHER as a final justification for a move, but instead regards them more as hints or suggestions that add to our insight and collective wisdom about the position.
I think that players like Riccio and Turgut know that to win CC games - you really need to be bold and often break new ground by making great sacrifices, etc at key moments. They use past games, safe lines and programs to the max - of course!! But, but, but - they have the INSIGHT to know when to deviate, when to drop them by the wayside and make some bold sacrifice that has never been made before, and which quite likely is initially misunderstood by the programs. But to win at these CC games - they realize they need to strive toward that level of excellence in their play. To play flawless at first, and then search for a sound deviation to go beyond.
are referring to when they talk about the need to get beyond the programs' horizons, but do to so smartly by making sound sacrifices based on good insight into the positions.
However, easier said than done - unless you have Fischer on your team.
As mentioned earlier, a team leader who has the wisdom and insight to synthesize the discussions down to there elemental components, and then present them to the Team (as unbiased as possible) would be a great asset IMO.
|Aug-23-11|| ||castledweller: Sorry - my computer cut out a line or two during the last post. But I am going on for too long anyways - u get the ideas.|
|Aug-23-11|| ||ImmortalPlayer: Deep Rybka 4 gives 0-0 as the best move with a score +0.08 (Depth=23).|
Houdini 1.5a also gives 0-0 as the best move with a score +0.11 (Depth=26).
|Aug-23-11|| ||cro777: <castledweller: However, easier said than done.>|
That was the idea of a forum I was about to activate. Any of the main variations (this is poll chess, a majority will decide which one we are going to play) can lead to either complex, sharp positions or quiet positions. Our main task should be, in any of selected variations, to try to steer the game into complex middlegame positions where the moves LIKE the positional exchange sacrifice <16...Rxe6> were possible (I never meant to blindly follow the model game).
|Aug-23-11|| ||DrMAL: In all honesty, my patience here has already completely worn out. I enjoy teaching others provided they are receptive and in a learning mode, I have done so on occasion for many years. There is indeed too large a gap in skill between players on this site so I wish the team best of luck with those who remain. I will look in from time to time but no longer vote nor comment. Best of luck to folks like <castledweller> and <ImmortalPlayer> hope the game is a good learning experience for you, cya.|
|Aug-23-11|| ||cro777: <DrMAL> You have good ideas. The move <4...b6> was also a decent alternative. You were completely right about playing OUR game at move 2, but the poll voted out the better alternative. After 2...e6 we are already playing HIS game (we cannot change that fact).|
The game will probably proceed
4.Qc2 0-0 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.Qxc3 b6 7.Nf3 Bb7 8 e3
Let's work together to make the best of it.
|Aug-23-11|| ||cormier: <Garech> 4...0-0 5.a3 Bxc3 6.Qxc3 Ne4!? 7.Qc2 f5: is interesting, we are 7 day away of a possible 6...Ne4 ... tks G|
|Aug-23-11|| ||quarterplay: On my database after 4...O-O Akobian is +6 -1 =11.He played 5.a3 15 x's,Nf3 2 x's and e4 once.In 2010 he lost to Friedel after 5.a3 Bxc3 6.Qxc3 b6 etc.|
|Aug-23-11|| ||kamalakanta: These two games are replete with different ideas....|
M Cebalo vs Suba, 2011
Ivanchuk vs Kramnik, 2011
|Aug-23-11|| ||DrMAL: <cro777> Thanx. Yes, that seems most likely (or, with 7.Bg5). This has been taking up too much of my time, perhaps I will comment some time later on but for now, I prefer to stay out of it, cheers.|
|Aug-23-11|| ||kamalakanta: While this one, like most of Ljubojevic's wins, borders on spectacular!|
Browne vs Ljubojevic, 1981
|Aug-23-11|| ||thegoodanarchist: <LIFE Master AJ:
... although I have already gotten 2-3 e-mails from people who have suggested that I don't belong on this team...>
Don't listen to it. You belong on the team. <Frogbert> too.
|Aug-23-11|| ||castledweller: DrMAL - i hope U stay
Frogbert - the same for U too
Most everybody appreciates the input and insights you both bring to the team - just don't let the personal stuff get to ya - focus on helping us instead - we need it.
And if your suggestions don't take hold, that is just par for the course here - it doesn't mean they were not good and well-intentioned ideas. Hope you stay.
<cro777 . . . That was the idea of a forum I was about to activate. Any of the main variations (this is poll chess, a majority will decide which one we are going to play) can lead to either complex, sharp positions or quiet positions. Our main task should be, in any of selected variations, to try to steer the game into complex middlegame positions where the moves LIKE the positional exchange sacrifice 16...Rxe6 were possible (I never meant to blindly follow the model game).>
I know - and I am waiting to see the forum and what it comes up with.!!!!!!!
|Aug-23-11|| ||thegoodanarchist: <Garech>
Nice post as usual.
I especially liked the part about the boozy stag weekend.
|Aug-23-11|| ||kamalakanta: And last, but not least...
I Sokolov vs DeFirmian, 1998
|Aug-23-11|| ||kamalakanta: I have missed most of the discussions here, but I would agree that those players of good strength who love the game should stay in the team, at least for our own benefit.|
I understand, however, if they withdraw. I love chess, but get turned off big-time by opinionated, arrogant and cowardly jerks who hide behind a computer screen to insult anyone.
There is a non-written law in chess, to respect others and treat them in a classy manner. Jerks who own an engine and therefore think themselves to be chessplayers are only fooling themselves, for chess is a game for gentlemen.
|Aug-23-11|| ||parmetd: good point kamalakanta. People would do well to listen to you.|
|Aug-23-11|| ||JustWoodshifting: <Life Master AJ>, <Frogbert>:
My ideas are usually shot down. However I hang in, mainly to learn. Your inputs are needed, especially in CC. Please stay the course!|
|Aug-23-11|| ||indraws21: indraws21:
Nice to meet you on the Kibitzer's Corner of chessgames.com. I am a new comer here.
Sorry, I choose 4...c5 and not 4...0-0
because I don't siute for 4...0-0 very much. So I decided4...c5. Thanks.
|Aug-24-11|| ||sevenseaman: Its very helpful that people take the trouble to cite so many good examples of a similar Nimzo-Indian defense. Confidence-boosting! DeFirmian win was exhilarating!|
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