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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Sep-30-11
 | | sevenseaman: Try this crafty link with position after 36...Rg2+.
http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t... I have tried very hard for a White win but to little avail. May be someone among you is able to squeeze out a win. White is a couple of Ps to the good but his K is in a bind. |
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| Sep-30-11 | | FrogC: Got it! A long time since I've got a Friday puzzle. I went for Qxg6+ rather than Nxg6 for the lazy player's reason that it's forcing so you don't have to work out what resources Black might have in reply. |
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Sep-30-11
 | | agb2002: The material is even.
Black threatens 30... Q(R)xh4.
The black knight is defenseless and the pawn on f5 can be pinned against the black king, thus allowing a pawn fork after 30.Nxg6 Qxg6 31.Qxg6+ Kxg6 32.g4, therefore 30.Nxg6: A) 30... Qxg6 31.Qxg6+ Kxg6 32.g4
A.1) 32... Rh7 33.Bxf5+ Kh6 (33... Kf6 34.Bxh7 + -; 33... Kg7 34.Bxd7 + -) 34.g5+ Kg7 35.Bxd7 Rh2+ 36.Kg3 Rxa2 37.Rxc5 + - [2P]. A.2) 32... Rh2+ 33.Kg3 Re2 34.Bxf5+ Kf6 35.Bxd7 Rxe3+ 36.Kh4 d4 37.Rxc5 d3 38.g5+ Ke7 39.Bg4 + - [2P]. B) 30... Rh6 31.Ne5+ and 32.Nxd7 + -.
C) 30... Kf7 31.Ne5+ Nxe5 32.fxe5 Qe7 33.e6+
C.1) 33... Kxe6 (or 33... Ke8) 34.Qg6+ and 35.Qxh5 + -. C.2) 33... Kf8 34.Qg6 followed by 35.Bxf5 + -.
C.3) 33... Kf6 34.Qg8 (threatens 35.Rxc5) 34... Qxe6 35.Qf8+ followed by 36.Qxc5 with the better game. C.4) 33... Qxe6 34.Rxc5 with the threats Rc7+, Qc7+, b4-a4-b5, etc. D) 30... Kh7 31.Ne5 Nxe5 32.fxe5 Qe7 33.Qg4 Qh4+ 34.Qxh4 Rxh4 35.Bxf5+ followed by 36.Rxc5, etc. |
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Sep-30-11
| | agb2002: I missed the obvious threat 30... Qb2+. Better luck tomorrow. |
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| Sep-30-11 | | KingV93: Yikes! far too deep for me! |
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| Sep-30-11 | | newshutz: <sevenseaman> after 36...Rg2+ Try 37.Kh3 with ideas of Rxc5 and Bc6 |
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| Sep-30-11 | | dfcx: I agree with <gofer> that after
<30 Qxg6+ Qxg6>
<31 Nxg6 ...>
<31 ... Kxg6> is bad and black should decline the knight. But instead of playing <31 ... Kf6> black should continue with
<31 ... Kf7>
<32 Ne5+ Nxe5>
<33 fxe5 c4!>
<34 bxc4 ke6>
Now it's almost an even game with white have a slight pawn advantage. It's beyond me to see any easy win. |
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Sep-30-11
 | | kevin86: sorry,the knight sac and deep fork of knight and king are above my pay grade. |
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Sep-30-11
 | | chrisowen: lovely vision it is by Spielmann wheezy snicker num num ploopa knight in ha ah musnt work bad head ad ead better queen eeehehehe an win apawn a sac yeas a sac my kingy safe safe little surge well wupp him. |
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| Sep-30-11 | | BOSTER: When Spielmann was young , he played many hazardous games. But age changes our taste.
This is the position after black 19...f6, where white played 20.Nf3.
click for larger view
I don't think that such player like E.Geller would retreat knight on f3. |
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| Sep-30-11 | | CHESSTTCAMPS: So why did several generally reliable kibitzers, (<dzechiel>,<CHESSTTCAMPS>,<FSR>,<rhickma4>,<morfi-
shine>,<agb2002>), go for the blunder 30.Nxg6?? instead of 30.Qxg6+! ? Part of it may involve failure to notice the "long" move Qb2+ (away from the focus of kingside action), but I think that is secondary. Undoubtedly most of these kibitzers thought (as I did) that the wrong order of moves was actually the right order of moves because 30.Nxg6(??) Qxg6(??) 31.Qxg6+ forces the king to step into the pin at g6, whereas 30.Qxg6+! Qxg6 31.Nxg6 does not. A formal identification of the opponent's major threats, as <JimfromProvidence> did today (and <agb2002>, among other, often does) would make this kind of blunder less likely. |
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Sep-30-11
| | sevenseaman: Yes <BOSTER> I agree. I think Nxh7 closes out the game if K takes the N.
<20. Nxh7 Kxh7 21. hxg6+ Kg8 22. Qh5 Rfe8 23. Qh7+ Kf8 24. Qf7#> Its a fun discovery and I do not see much play is available to Black. |
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| Sep-30-11 | | doubledrooks: I found the game continuation from 30. Qxg6+ through 35. Bxd7.
However, I neglected to consider 32...Rh7. |
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Sep-30-11
 | | Jimfromprovidence: It's difficult to see why 30 Nxg6 does not work without providing the details as to what happens after 30...Qb2+. Here is the position after 30 Nxg6 Qb2+.
click for larger view With 30…Qb2+, black exposes himself to a discovered check. Let's look at white's possible responses. Anything on the first rank is taboo. 31. Ke1 or Kf1 leads to mate in one after 31...Rh1+. 31 Kg1 loses to 31...Qxc1+. 31 Kf3 leads to the discovered check 31...d4+. White only move is 31 Rc2 and black follows with 31...Qxb1. 
click for larger view
White can now unleash a discovered check but the challenge now is to determine if there is an attack strong enough to neutralize the devastating 32…Qxc2+. Good luck! |
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Sep-30-11
| | sevenseaman: <CHESSTTCAMPS> Let us look at <How the mind works>. Reasonable to start with mine. My first look at the puzzle and I saw at once N, B and the Q as candidates. 1. Nh4 was attacked twice and defended only once; no resource, so a goner. 2. 30. Nxf5 will be a check and either Q or R could recapture it to remove the check. But Q was not obliged to leave f6. 3. This is when I saw Q aimed at B2+ spelling dire consequences. 4. Discarded both the N as well as the B and selected the Q as the lone candidate. All the above thinking may not have consumed more than a few fleeting seconds (5 to 10 say)and I played <30. Qxf6+>, accepting the unavoidable loss of a N for a P(The N being a goner anyway). Frankly I was not greatly enthused with the situation and at no stage did I entertain hopes that White would win (Even now). <But since it was a puzzle I plowed on>. All along my suspicion that I may have missed a trick today never left me (read my post). Now you tell us your thoughts, if you so choose. <At Contract Bridge we do this analysis all the time after each game as there two play as partners>. |
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| Sep-30-11 | | wishfull: I assume, most of you regular kibitzers are 2000+ rated. I AM ENVIOUS. lol.. i enjoy trying to solve these , but after wednesdays , i am lucky to see the first couple of moves.But i enjoy reading your posts on those days..thnx everyone. |
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Sep-30-11
 | | morfishine: <CHESSTTCAMPS> On your comment: <...but I think that is secondary. Undoubtedly most of these kibitzers thought (as I did) that the wrong order of moves was actually the right order of moves because 30.Nxg6(??) Qxg6(??) 31.Qxg6+ forces the king to step into the pin at g6, whereas 30.Qxg6+! Qxg6 31.Nxg6 does not> Good point! Unfortunately I cannot claim such justification; I simply focused on the fact the knight was attacked twice, and figured <30.Nxg6> solved that problem. In fact, I didn't even see <30...Qb2+> for some reason; Carelessness is the only explanation; No doubt if I did see the Queen check, I would've gone straight for <30.Qxg6+> Good insight :) |
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| Sep-30-11 | | CHESSTTCAMPS: <sevenseaman> First of all, congratulations on your solution post, which not only nailed the gist of the solution, but also anticipated black's counterplay in the game(which falls short). Regarding your response to my comment, I think the gist of it is that your thought process got you to see the whole board and the key threats quickly. I know from my experience on Chess Tactics Server (where you are rewarded for quick response and docked for slow response, even if your solution is correct), my best results occur when I spend the first couple seconds just trying to see the whole board without attempting a solution. Being fatigued or not being relaxed generally results in poor performance. It's often hard to understand why good players make elementary oversights even with plenty of time available, but when several people make the same oversight, I try to look for a specific reason. BTW, the link in your earlier post pointed to the Crafty Board Generator and not to a specific position. If you get a chance to post the actual position link, I'd appreciate it. |
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| Sep-30-11 | | CHESSTTCAMPS: <JimfromProvidence> Thanks for pointing out that there are still details to be worked out if white blunders with 30.Nxg6. (Your diagrams should not have a BR on f8.) After 30... Qb2+ 31.Rc2 Qxb1, white's best chance is certainly the natural, centralizing check 32.Ne5+, which allows forced mates for white after Kf6??, Kh6?? or Kh7??. Unfortunately for white, after 32... Kh8! 33.Nf7+ Kh7 34.Ng5+ Rxg5 wins, so the best chance is probably 34.Re2, after which 34... Ba6 looks strong for black. |
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Sep-30-11
 | | DarthStapler: I at least considered the first two moves |
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Sep-30-11
| | Jimfromprovidence: <CHESSTTCAMPS> Thanks for pointing out the extra rook in my diagrams. (I should not have hired subcontractors). Anyway, your last post clearly points out the potential pitfalls for black after 30 Nxg6 Qb2+. Here is the position after 31 Rc2 Qxb1 32 Ne5+ Kh8. 
click for larger view You go on to say <After 30... Qb2+ 31.Rc2 Qxb1, white's best chance is certainly the natural, centralizing check 32.Ne5+, which allows forced mates for white after Kf6??, Kh6?? or Kh7??. Unfortunately for white, after 32... Kh8! 33.Nf7+ Kh7 34.Ng5+ Rxg5 wins,> It appears that you fell victime from one of those traps, because after 34…Rxg5, 35 Qh4+, it looks like a perpetual. Instead try 34…Kg6 or 34…Kg7. After 31 Rc2 Qxb1 32 Ne5+ Kh8, white can also try 33 Qg6, below, (threatening 34 Nf7#).
click for larger viewThis line turns crazy after 33…Qxc2+ 34 Kg3 Nxe5 35 Qxh5+ Kg7 36 fxe5 f4+.
click for larger viewWhite cannot afford to not take the pawn. So, after 37 exf4, black has 37...Qg6+, forcing the queen trade with a winning position. 
click for larger viewNote: I used Rybka freeware to assist me with all of the above analysis. |
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Sep-30-11
 | | M.Hassan: "Difficult" White to play 30.?
Forces are equal.
I would have played this line if I were in a game:
30.Qxg6+ Qxg6
31.Nxg6 Kxg6
32.g4 (f pawn can not take)
32.........Rh2+
33.Kg3 Re2
34.Bxf5+ Kf7
35.Bxd7 Rxe3+
36.Kf2
Although White is a pawn ahead, i don't see an immediate win and am inclined to say it could be a draw
Time to check
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White wins! what do you think of 39....Bg2?.White will get a piece because of this move and it looked draw before this move. |
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| Oct-01-11 | | CHESSTTCAMPS: <<Unfortunately for white, after 32... Kh8! 33.Nf7+ Kh7 34.Ng5+ Rxg5 wins,> It appears that you fell victime from one of those traps, because after 34…Rxg5, 35 Qh4+, it looks like a perpetual. Instead try 34…Kg6 or 34…Kg7.> I wrote the post in a bit of a hurry, intending to phrase it "..Rxg5 looks to be winning" knowing that there were complications. But I completely missed 35.Qh4+. Thanks for the catch. It is certainly interesting to explore this line in depth. |
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| Oct-01-11 | | stst: Too late for a try, but out of the two strikers NxfP+ or QxgP+, I'll still opt for QxqP+, after exchanging W should prevail...
Good-Nite!! |
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Oct-01-11
| | sevenseaman: Deep analysis has shown 30. Nxg6 permitting 30...Qb2+ is a mistake for White. Whether he wins, draws or loses in the end; <30 Qxg6 Qxg6 31. Nxg6 et al> (text) is best for him. |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
sac: 31.Nxg6