< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Nov-13-11|| ||al wazir: 1. Yes, Tan Zhongyi is female. I apologize to her.|
2. But note that she was the loser in Saturday's puzzle game (Tan Zhongyi vs Gu Xiaobing, 2011). Both she and her opponent (and I too, alas) overlooked the best move.
3. So she is fallible. As others have pointed out, black could have defended better. If black had played 24...Rxf5, we would not be seeing this game presented as an "insane" puzzle.
4. Yes, strong players make risky, speculative, sacrificial moves when they see positional compensation for the material offered. But I continue to doubt that Tan had visualized the whole continuation when she played 20. Qd2.
|Nov-13-11|| ||Marmot PFL: <But I continue to doubt that Tan had visualized the whole continuation when she played 20. Qd2>|
It would have to be earlier, when playing 17 Nd5, otherwise white is simply worse.
|Nov-13-11|| ||jackalope: No joy on this POTD. Black may have a slight material advantage having retained his bishop pair while the board opened up. White has an immediate mate threat on the a1-h8 diagonal if he can remove Black's DSB on b2 - he also has a threat on the h file. I looked first at <20. Qb1> but <20. ... Bf6> stops White because the queen will require 2 moves to get to a safe square on the h file. So I looked at <20. Qd2> attacking Black's Bb2 and giving the queen access to h6. It's the best I can find but I'm not sure White can win |
<20. Qd2 Bf6 21. Nxg6+ hxg6 22. Qh6+ Kg8 23. Re7 Qxe7 (to prevent Qh7#) 24. Nxe7+ Bxe7 25. Qxg6+>
White has 6 pawns (3 are passed) vs 4 pawns for Black and Q+B+R vs 2xR+2xB+N for Black - White's queen should be able to create some check forks to whittle Black's piece/pawn count while also providing a path for the three king-side pawns to advance - White certainly has the more active position as Black is going to have to shore up his defenses. Not sure if that's enough.
Time to see what I missed...
|Nov-13-11|| ||Jimfromprovidence: That 20 Qd2 allows a superficial attack on the bishop is not difficult to visualize, but seeing that it also allows 21 Nxg6+ after 20...Bxa1 is quite amazing. |
I went with 22 Nfe7+, which looks promising.
click for larger view
But after 22...Kf7 23 Nxf8 Qxf8 24 Nxc8 Rxc8 it's difficult to see white's best move.
click for larger view
25 Rxa1 looks problematic because of 25 ...Nxb3. Maybe 25 b4 is better.
A very challenging, brilliant puzzle.
|Nov-13-11|| ||chrisowen: Zhongi vs Zhang a game whoopings and man youll a forgive me for not spotting the Multiple sacs laissez faire the double fianchetto, plug both hole Insanus with Kasparov in mind. |
Kasparov vs Deep Blue, 1997
wetting the apetite king h8 air split queen take dark square sac g6 an d5 in some sort bateable. Action havent big whole sequence stir up xg6 again knight fatal flying guillot would you point out repeater if i see king buriedh6 Tan mouth d6p
|Nov-13-11|| ||whiteshark: <newzild: <Too difficult for me. Awesome play by Tan.>> Me too. |
<24...Rxf5> offered some more resistance, but who'd like to face the discovered check <25.Re8++> with <25... Kg7 26.Rxd8 Rxd8 27.Qxf5 hxg6>?
|Nov-13-11|| ||scormus: Got nowhere today.
I wanted to play 21 Nxg6+ but I couldnt see what was wrong with ... hxg6. Only after I gave up I eventually saw 22 Qh6+ Kg8 23 Ne7+ Kf7 24 Qxg6#. If I'd seen that earlier I might have done better, sigh ...
I have to agree with <Jim> this is a great puzzle. The temptation to play 23 Ne7+ would have been very strong (... Kf7 24 Qf4+ but 24 ... Bf6 seems to stop everything) Instead 23 Bd5+ looks best. And I have to admire Tan's play.
|Nov-13-11|| ||scormus: Well I'm blowed, Rybka gave 23 Rxe7+ in preference to 23 Bd5+. Instead of 24 ... Ne6 she gave the desperate looking 24 ... Rxf5 but despite 25 Re8++ B can fight on. Hmmmm, I'm not sure if a deeper search would support that choice|
|Nov-13-11|| ||scormus: <whiteshark: ... but who'd like to face the discovered check <25.Re8++>>|
who indeed? Certainly not me!
|Nov-13-11|| ||OhioChessFan: <ssm: No <OCF> At move 31 Black plays Bg7 rather than Bf6 and holds.>|
At move 31, the Bishop is already there.
|Nov-13-11|| ||polarx: <25... Kg7 26.Rxd8 Rxd5 27.Rxb8, Rd1+. 28.Kg2,Kxg6>?|
|Nov-13-11|| ||theodor: 20.Nxe6 is also interesting.|
|Nov-13-11|| ||theodor: chrisowen is deepening!|
|Nov-13-11|| ||morfishine: Couldn't find a decisive line. <20.Qd2> seemed the best, if not only candidate, but felt that after 20...Bf6, Black could hold. |
<sevenseaman> Nice job, very good work
<OhioChessFan> Excellent input today. particularly with regards to 24...Rxf5
<Patriot> Your comments mirrored my thoughts, almost exactly
|Nov-13-11|| ||stst: Looks pretty complex, and no good moves for White.
The long diagonal a1-h8 gives the clue, for the Bk K, being locked by the two N's, cannot move. Yet the diagonal is guarded by the Bk B, which is about to take the WR @a1.
The resolve therefore is to drive this B, while threatening to send the WQ to h6 - hence the hint:
IF(A)20... gxf5; 21.Qxb2# at once.
IF(B)20....Bxa1; 21.Qh6 gxf5 (else Qg7# next); 22.Bxc6 (take adv. of N-fork if bxc6, to control the g8-a2 diagonal) Rf6 - drive the Q; 23.Ng6+ Kg8; 24.Re7 to defy Ne6 or Be6 interposing, now if Rf7 for last interpose, 25.Re8+ winning the Q.
That's the main idea, the uprising Chi-girl Tan may varies it somewhat....see...
Ng6+ Kg8 (no other rescue); 23.Re7 (if QxR, 24.NxQ+ Kh8; 25.QxR#)
(if Rf7; 24.RxR
|Nov-13-11|| ||stst: <o then I watched the answer...and of course it is Qd2:)>
...After Qc2, Qd3... what else comes more natural as Qd2!?!|
|Nov-13-11|| ||tacticalmonster: 20 Qd2 a) Bxa1 and b) Be5
a1) 21 hxg6 22 Qh6+ Kg8 23 Qxg6+ Kh8 24 Re7 Qxe7 25 Nxe7 Bf5 26 Nxf5 Rce8 27 Nxd6 Re7
a2) 21 Kg8 22 Bd5+! cxd5 23 Qxd5+ Be6 24 Rxe6 Nxe6 25 Qxe6+ Rf7 26 Nh6+ Kg7 27 Qxf7+ Kxh6 28 Ne7 Qf8 29 Nf5+ Kg5 30 h4+ Kg4 31 Ne3+ Kh3 32 Qe6+ Qf5 33 Qxf5#
b) 21 hxg6 22 Qh6+ Kg8 23 Qxg6+ Kh8 24 Rxe5 Bxf5 25 Rxf5
|Nov-13-11|| ||LIFE Master AJ: Worked on this for close to 30 minutes ... saw Qd2, but not much else after that. |
Wonderful game, amazing string of sacks. (Was ...Bxa1 an error?)
|Nov-13-11|| ||LIFE Master AJ: I have not analyzed this with Fritz yet ... should Black have played (...) ♖xf5 instead of taking on e6?|
|Nov-13-11|| ||Nemesistic: 30 mins for ..Qd2 ? Sharpen up Mr Goldsby!|
|Nov-13-11|| ||King Death: The first move is actually simple, but what comes after is a lot tougher.|
The line that <Jim> gives looks like the best idea for Black. After his suggestion 25.b4, White gets his piece back and has a good position.
This was a nice attacking game.
|Nov-13-11|| ||sevenseaman: It has turned out to be a very tough puzzle. It is worthy of the thought process being revisited.|
The Black B dominating a1-h8 is a nuisance. Best to let it have R(a1)
and get compensation of Q dominating the c1-h6 diagonal. 20 Be5 is not a good option (as also shown by <patzer2>).
Now Nxg6+ is good and it becomes a challenge for Black. hxg6
is out because of the Q on d2, and Kg8 is forced.
This shifts focus to d5-g8 diagonal. White is called
upon to make more sacs.
Bd5, Qxd5 checks follow (with Black returning a piece).
22. Rxe6 is a good sac so long as Black responds with
the natural-looking 24...Nxe6. In my initial analysis
I assumed this Black response and later, the text too
It was only when I tried Crafty, a new response 24...Rxf5 came
into contention. Its a much better move as was also sharply suggested
Now White has a double check alright with Re8 but he is then obliged
to simplify as under;
<25. Re8+ Kg7 26. Qg8+ Kh6>
(here I tried 27. Nf8, with a deadly threat of 28 Qh7+ but Black
was not tempted to grab e8 R with his Q and he made the necessary
defensive response 28...Qc7 or d7)
<27. Rxd8 Rxd8 28 Qxd8 hxg6>
Hereafter the chances of a White win all but evaporate as he has
only a Q against a R, B and a N.
<OCF> however thinks Black cannot hold out and proposes a win for
White. I have my doubts; Zhongyi was lucky.
|Nov-13-11|| ||M.Hassan: "Insane" White to play 20.?
White has a Knight for a Bishop i.e. equal.
Taking d6 was what I thought to start:
White wins due to stronger material count.
Later i realized that the above line will be stalled by Bishop defending f7:
Now square f7 is defended by two pieces and Knight can not fork King and Queen.
Simply put: I could not solve the pozzle with this approach.
Time to see the actual game.
|Nov-14-11|| ||Ladolcevita: Yes,Qd2 is indeed best:)
But then I wasnt very certain about my first sight idea,and it was Sunday,so I somehow went to see the answer.
|Nov-16-11|| ||chrisowen: theodors blue flowers!|
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