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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Oct-31-11 | | Matsumoto: Nice game, Tan! |
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Nov-13-11
 | | dzechiel: White to move (20?). Material even. "Insane."
It seems that the longer I stare at this position, the more ideas I see, but none of them are persuasive at this point. My thoughts on key moves (so far):
- 20 Nxg6+
- 20 Re2
- 20 Qb1
- 20 Nxd6
- 20 Nxc6
- 20 Bxc6
- 20 Nxc8
I don't know. The only thing I have really noticed is that the white rook on a1 is NOT en prise, because a capture of the rook via 20...Bxa1 is answered with 21 Qxa1+ leading to mate. For this reason, I don't feel compelled to move the queen rook. But, other than that, how is white to make progress? In a blitz game, I would have played 20 Nxd6 long ago. That does threaten to win an exchange by trading off on c8, but black is able to move the bishop and that threat evaporates. I'm not seeing anything. This isn't my night. I'm going to check and see how this game played out. =====
Wonderful. I didn't even identify the key move as one of my candidates. Looking forward to Monday. |
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| Nov-13-11 | | abuzic: I can see
20.Qd2 Bxa1
21.Ng6+ Kg8
<21...hxg6 22.Qh6+ Kg8 23.Ne7+ Qxe7 24.Rxe7 Rd8 25.Qxg6+ Kh8 26.Rh7#> Here white has 2 alternatives 22.Bd5+ or 22.Nfe7+:
22.Bd5+ cxd5
23.Qxd5+ Be6
24.Rxe6 Rxf5
<24...Nxe6 25.Qxe6+ Rf7 26.Nh6+ Kg7 27.Qxf7+ Kxh6 28.Ne7 threat Nf5+> 25.Re8+ Kg7
26.Qg8+ Kh6
27.Rxd8 Rxd8
28.Qxd8 hxg6
29.Qxd6 Ne4 Q+3P for R+B+N.
the other variation is less attractive:
22.Nfe7+ Kg7
23.Nxf8 Bf6
<23...Qxf8 24.Qxd6> 24.Nxc8 Qxc8
25.b4. |
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Nov-13-11
 | | al wazir: I flatly refuse to believe that Tan saw the whole 13-move combination (including the finish, 30...Kg4 31. Ne3+ Kh3 32. Qe6+ Qf5 33. Qxf5#) when he played 20. Qd2. Maybe --just maybe -- a super-GM would have, but not a 2400 player. He lucked out. |
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Nov-13-11
 | | patzer2: Analysis with Fritz 12 gives the following possibilities in today's Sunday puzzle solution which initiates a clever mate pursuit combination: 20. Qd2!! Bxa1
(20...Be5 21. Nxg6+ Kg8 22. Nfe7+ Kf7 23. Nxf8 Qxe7 24. Nxh7 Nxb3 25. Qh6 Bf6 26.Qh5+ Kg8 27. Qg6+ Kh8 28. Rxe7 Bxe7 29. Nf6 Bxf6 30. Be4 Bf5 31. Bxf5 Nxa1 32. Qh7#) 21. Nxg6+! Kg8
(21... hxg6 22. Qh6+ Kg8 23. Ne7+ Qxe7 24. Rxe7 Rf7 25. Re8+ Rf8 26. Rxf8#) 22. Bd5+ cxd5 23. Qxd5+ Be6 24. Rxe6 Nxe6 25. Qxe6+ Rf7 26. Nh6+ Kg7 27. Qxf7+ Kxh6 28. Ne7 Qf8 29. Nf5+ Kg5 30. h4+ 1-0 Black resigns in the face of the mate-in-three which follows with 30...Kg4 31. Ne3+ Kh3 32. Qd7+ Qf5 33. Qxf5#. |
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| Nov-13-11 | | newzild: Too difficult for me. Awesome play by Tan. |
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Nov-13-11
 | | An Englishman: Good Evening: Thus concluding a 2/7 week. Monday can't come soon enough. |
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Nov-13-11
 | | sevenseaman: Equal on material. "Insane" - every inch looks so.
What comes to mind, first off? Say Black had no DSB, a N+ at g6, (hxg), a Q+ at h6/a B+ from d5 are on my wishlist. How to go about it. Without any doubt 20. Qd2 is my first move. It asks the DSB a question; decide your fate! It cannot usefully go anywhere as it will only block the k at g7. Bxa1 is best for it. Careful now, 21. Nxg6+ has to be my next move. If Black <takes with P, I have a 1-2 with the R and Q>. I am sure Black will better move the K. 21...Kg8 and not 21...Pxg6. Now I must not hold back on another sac.
22. Bd5+ cxd5 23. Qxd5+. And after;
<20. Qd2 Bxa1 21. Nxg6+ Kg8 22. Bd5+ cxd5 23. Qxd5+ Be6> I think we are here; 
click for larger viewNow what? Yet another sac suggests itself.
<24. Rxe6 Nxe6 25. Qxe6+> I am stripped for material but it has started looking good. Rf7 is forced. And the most delicious N check follows, forking the R. 25...Rf7 26. Nh6+. Things have become a bit hazy in my head. Either stop or <take a puzzle liberty here to reconstruct the position OTB - forced>. Let us see what we have after; <20. Qd2 Bxa1 21. Nxg6+ Kg8 22. Bd5+ cxd5 23. Qxd5+ Be6 24. Rxe6 Nxe6 25. Qxe6+ Rf7 26. Nh6+ Kg7> 
click for larger viewThat looks good.
I am very short on material but consolation is that Black's a8 R is out of battle and the B and his Q
are both trained on Black squares. If I can persuade the Black K to move South, I could have enough to swallow it up. So 27. Qxf7+ Kxh6. Small mercies, Black's d6 P is my best friend! Ne7 looks to be the right move here but Black could sac his Q to make my life tough. I have gone 7-8 moves, so; <STOP>. Elapsed time = 90 minutes, including a lunch break.
I think enough of a hypothesis, I must look if I have traveled right or where I went wrong (or stayed with Zhong) and how White won. |
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Nov-13-11
 | | tarek1: I did see the move Qd2. But in that case I thought Bf6 was a good enough defense. |
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| Nov-13-11 | | sfm: <al wazir: I flatly refuse to believe that Tan saw the whole 13-move combination (including the finish...>
Very interesting, and at the heart of human chess skills. Maybe he didn't, and just trusted his evaluation, which is of course what chess strength is all about. If so <He lucked out>, sort of, but of course, the luck increases with strength. I recall people speaking about the "Fischer-luck" back then. As Mark Brady commented "Of course luck does not win game after game, year after year, against the strongest players in the world". In the famous game against Robert Byrne
R Byrne vs Fischer, 1963
he plays 15.-,Nxf2!!. Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that this variation is very bad for Black without the move 21.-,Qd7, and seeing what could follow. Did Fischer really see all this? Or was he "lucky"? Actually, seeing long rather forced variations is not so hard over a certain level. Those being able to play blindfold chess should also be able to "see" it until the end, knowing in advance the moves played. Some people does easily what to others seem impossible. More than 20 years ago I played blitz for money on the walking street in Copenhagen, typically playing for what today would be approx. 10 USD/game. At time it could draw quite a crowd. It happened that the board (standing on a box) was wiped for some reason, typically kicked by accident by a drunk guy being pushed a bit from behind, or a novice rollerblader. I'd simply stop the clock and put back the pieces as they were, to play on. At times the opponent wasn't sure that it was really the position, and I'd play quickly through the game, move by move, proving I was right. Most posters here could do the same, but to some spectators this was an unbelievable demonstration of out-of-this-world memory skills. LOL! Then, there's this guy Chao Lu of China who memorized the first 67890 digits of Pi (a seemingly completely 'random' sequence), those memorizing the entire bible or Quaran, and in our world Aljectine who announced a mate-in-10 in a simul-game, and Koltanowski with his 34 blindfold simul. So - believe! |
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| Nov-13-11 | | TeaChess: Got the first two moves. Btw, Tan is a GIRL. |
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Nov-13-11
| | sevenseaman: My wrestling match with Crafty is not going too well.
It follows the script some but on the 24th move it does
not respond Nxe6 but complicates with Rxf5. That
stops my Q+ from e6. I give the double discovered
check 25. Re8+ and follow it up with Qg8+ but then
I have to simplify and find myself too light on
material;. a Q against a R, N and a B.
click for larger viewBlack's 24th move Nxe6, though very natural is week
and it later leads to the N fork that gets White into
the game. Crafty shuns it and will not let you win.
http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t.... Try. |
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Nov-13-11
 | | OhioChessFan: 24...Rxf5 might have been better. |
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Nov-13-11
| | OhioChessFan: <ssm> I see you and Crafty found that resource for Black also.
24...Rxf5 25. Re8 Kg7 26. Qg8+ Kh6 27. Rxd8 Rxd8 28. Qxd8 hxg6
click for larger view
So far, pretty straight forward. I don't see any alternatives.
Have to let it go for now, but probably 29. Qxd6 but maybe Qh4+ |
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| Nov-13-11 | | abuzic: <patzer2:>
Mate after 20.Qd2 Be5 is nice variation but is not forced: 20.Qd2 Be5
21.Nxg6+ Kg8
<(in this variation black can take 21...hxg6 with no fear of mate as in the <20...Bxa1 variation>
20.Qd2 Be5 21.Ng6+ hxg6 22.Qh6+ Kg8 23.Qxg6+ Kh8 24.Rxe5 Bxf5 25.Rxf5 Rxf5 26.Qxf5 Qf8)> 22.Nfe7+ <22.Nh6+ is also playable here)>
22..Kf7
23.Nxf8 Qxe7
24.Nxh7 Kg8. |
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Nov-13-11
| | OhioChessFan: I didn't come close to the solution today btw. I thought I was missing something with 20. Nxg6+ hxg6 21. Ne7 Bxa1 22. Qxa1+ |
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Nov-13-11
 | | King Sacrificer: Great post sfm!
I guessed the first move right but i was unable to calculate the rest.
Here's a nice quote from Tal:
"You must take your opponent into a deep dark forest where 2+2=5, and the path leading out is only wide enough for one." I wish luck to this 20-year-old girl, Tan from China. |
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Nov-13-11
| | OhioChessFan: http://www.chessbase.com/news/2011/... |
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Nov-13-11
| | King Sacrificer: By the way, this game may deserve a GOTD with the pun: Don't let the Tan go down on me. :) |
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| Nov-13-11 | | Grenache: I quickly found the main variations, and this also should be expected from GM/IM player (I am an IM myself). Honestly, I did not see at all the Bd5 idea in the main line, but I stopped calculating after seeing that Nfe7+ Kf7 Nf8: leads to a very promising to winning position for White (e.g. Qf8: Qd6: Be6 Qc5: Bf6 Qh5+ Ke7: Bh3, or Bf6 Nc8: R/Qc8: b4). Tan might have seen all this from the start, but in a practical game, this is not required making the decision to play Qd2. It looks good enough and moreover, something might pop up on the way (like the Bd5 idea). With pressure on the clock, calculating everything to the end is sometimes impossible. |
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Nov-13-11
| | sevenseaman: <patzer2> I've seen your Fritz 12 vetted analysis for 20...Bxa1 line. Its fine. A problem crops up when at move 24 Black substitutes 24...Rxf5 in place of Nxe6. As this denies White the 26. Nh6+, a check that forks the R at f7. Without this largesse White's campaign loses steam. The text, my first analysis and your Fritz 12 - vetted analyses have gone with 24...Nxe6 but not Crafty. It goes for Rxf5 and causes White a problem in her smooth win. Do you see a refutation? |
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| Nov-13-11 | | Ladolcevita: Tan zhongyi is quite talented of course...
I hope she will follow her peer Ju wenjun,establishing herself very well in Chinese women team. |
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| Nov-13-11 | | Ladolcevita: <al wazir>
As IM<Grenache>has said,one doesnt have to calculate all the moves beforehand otb,I think for masters,Qd3 could be very simple and natural. For me,at first glance,I found that the a1-h8 diagnoal is very crucial in this position,since the e7 knight is very well established,and controls the g8 square.So the first idea for me is to capture the b2 bishop...so the queen is a good choice..then I went for Qc2,which didnt work out,so then I watched the answer...and of course it is Qd2:) |
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| Nov-13-11 | | Ladolcevita: BTW,I remember Zhang xiaowen was also an Asian champion,so she's clearly very promising too,but what's special about Tan is that she had won world junior champion(I presume should be girls section)for three times...neverthelss at present,apart from Yifan for sure,Ju wenjun is currently leading her peers in China. |
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Nov-13-11
| | OhioChessFan: 24...Rxf5 25. Re8 Kg7 26. Qg8+ Kh6 27. Rxd8 Rxd8 28. Qxd8 hxg6 29. Qxd6 Ne4 30. Qd1 Bg7 31. Qd8 Bf6 32. Qf8+ Kh7 33. Qf7+ Kh6 34. Qxb7 Nxf2 35. b4 I don't think Black can hold this. Regardless, 24...Rxf5 is a much better defense.
click for larger view |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
+ sac: 20.Qd2
