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| Nov-16-11 | | VargPOD: <<VargPOD: After 50.Bc7 e3 51.Kg2 and e-pawn looks stuck.> 51...e2 refuses to wait for the King and it gains a tempo by attacking the Rook on f1. 53 Re1 Bxc7 54 dxc7 Rxc7> Ulhumbrus, you are right, while analyzing I had forgotten white rook on c1. Thus deleted my post. |
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Nov-16-11
 | | tpstar: Great fighting draw! |
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| Nov-16-11 | | Ulhumbrus: <Marmot PFL: <Uhlhumbrus> looks like white had winning position - 50. Bc7 e3 51. b5 Bh4 52. d7 e2 53. Rg1 e1=Q 54. Rxe1 Bxe1 55. d8=Q+ Rxd8 56. Bxd8 Kf7 57. b6 Bc3 58. b7 Be5 59. Bh4 Bb8 60. Bg3 Ba7 61. b8=Q Bxb8 62. Bxb8 g5 63. Kg2 Ke6 64. Kf3 Kf5 65. Ke3 h5 66. Bg3 g4 67. Be1 Ke6 68. Ke4> In this sequence an alternative to 53...e2-e1/Q is 53...Rf8 holding up the d pawn for the moment but threatening as well 54...Rf1 |
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| Nov-16-11 | | Ulhumbrus: <VargPOD: <<VargPOD: After 50.Bc7 e3 51.Kg2 and e-pawn looks stuck.> 51...e2 refuses to wait for the King and it gains a tempo by attacking the Rook on f1. 53 Re1 Bxc7 54 dxc7 Rxc7>
Ulhumbrus, you are right, while analyzing I had forgotten white rook on c1. Thus deleted my post.> In that case I will delete my reply to it as well. |
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Nov-16-11
 | | Domdaniel: <Gypsy> You're right. Also, the rate of play in those old tournaments allowed endgames to be played at the same speed as the rest of the game. Many contemporary players only experience rapidplay endgames. |
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| Nov-16-11 | | whiteshark: Today again, no blunder in a TB position. :) |
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Nov-16-11
 | | chessgames.com: Thanks to everybody for joining us today. Tune in tomorrow to enjoy the 2nd round of the Tal Memorial (6:00am USA/Eastern), and if time allows we'll flip over to the Women's World Championship. See you then! |
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Nov-16-11
| | chessgames.com: Oh wait--Ivanchuk-Svidler is still in progress? Let's tune in to that before calling it quits. |
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| Nov-16-11 | | Marmot PFL: <In this sequence an alternative to 53...e2-e1/Q is 53...Rf8 holding up the d pawn for the moment but threatening as well 54...Rf1> What if 53...Rf8 54 Ba5 Rf1 55 b6, can black stop both pawns? |
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| Nov-16-11 | | VargPOD: Ulhumbrus, thank you.
Have to go now, will analyze this later more thoroughly. Looks like 50.Bc7 was the only way at least to fight for victory, as things dried up after 50.Rf5 Bxa5 bxa5. |
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| Nov-16-11 | | Marmot PFL: They are analyzing that now, but Carlsen moving too fast for me. |
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| Nov-16-11 | | beenthere240: Nicely drawn! |
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| Nov-16-11 | | Ulhumbrus: <<In this sequence an alternative to 53...e2-e1/Q is 53...Rf8 holding up the d pawn for the moment but threatening as well 54...Rf1>
What if 53...Rf8 54 Ba5 Rf1 55 b6, can black stop both pawns?> Instead of 54...Rf1 how about 54...Bf2 |
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| Nov-16-11 | | Marmot PFL: < Ulhumbrus> Better is 54 b6 right away, as if 54...Rf1 55 Bg3 Rxg1+ 56 Kxg1 e1(Q)+ 57 Bxe1 Bxe1 58 d8(Q)+ So the black rook needs to stay back, but if 54...e1(Q) 55 Rxf1 Bxf1 56 d8(Q) Rxd8 57 Bxd8 and the black king is too far from the white b pawn. Black has to sacrifice his bishop for it, and white can win the B+p vs 2p ending without too much trouble. The players did some post game analysis in English (maybe their only shared language) on the video, which i don't have time to review right now. http://www.russiachess.org/live/onl... |
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| Nov-16-11 | | frogbert: the post-game analysis showed that
1) carlsen didn't miss Bc7 - he actually thought it was winning for white, as he pointed out to Aronian on cam 2) carlsen miscalculated the Kf7 lines, but said that he probably should've played that instead of Rxd6 without having to be "told" that engines believed Kf7 to be drawing and Bc7 to be winning 3) aronian miscalculated something in the Bc7-lines
re comparing current and historic players: it's pretty much pointless since the (competitive, elite) game has changed so much. the players are shaped by their historical context and spend/spent time (in-game and pre-game) according to the requirements of their time. the focus has clearly shifted towards the earlier parts of the game compared to before, for a lot of reasons. it impacts which skills that are honed, of course. that said, i think too many are too fast to exaggerate the old masters' end game skills and to downplay the skills of current players, relatively speaking. one simple point: playing an ending when you're rested compared to doing it immediately following 4 hours of exhausting complications (completely disregarding what players might have learned about the position during the adjournment) is simply so different that it cannot be compared in a fair way. |
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| Nov-16-11 | | haydn20: During the game I saw 39...Qxe3 40. Qxe3 Nxe3 and it looks like White will have trouble saving the d-P, but since nobody mentioned it I assumed it was bad. I'm running it on Fritz which so far has 41. b5 cxb5 42. Bc3 Bf6 with a solid plus. |
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| Nov-16-11 | | frogbert: aronian had planned 41. b5 cxb5 42. d5 there ... |
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| Nov-16-11 | | Ulhumbrus: <Marmot PFL: < Ulhumbrus> Better is 54 b6 right away, as if 54...Rf1 55 Bg3 Rxg1+ 56 Kxg1 e1(Q)+ 57 Bxe1 Bxe1 58 d8(Q)+
So the black rook needs to stay back, but if 54...e1(Q) 55 Rxf1 Bxf1 56 d8(Q) Rxd8 57 Bxd8 and the black king is too far from the white b pawn. Black has to sacrifice his bishop for it, and white can win the B+p vs 2p ending without too much trouble. The players did some post game analysis in English (maybe their only shared language) on the video, which i don't have time to review right now.> On 54 b6 Bd8 delays the advance d7-d8/Q and so prepares the move ...Rf1 |
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Nov-16-11
 | | tamar: "I was very excited about moving my little guys!" Aronian on 39...Qxe3 40 Qxe3 Nxe3 41 b5 cxb5 42 d5 
click for larger viewCarlsen gave him a look and agreed that White was not risking much here. Houdini sees it as dead even after 42...Bf6 43 Ra2 Rec8 44 Re1 Rxa5 45 Rxa5 Bc3 46 Ra7 Bxe1 47 d6 Bb4 48 Bxf7+ Kf8 49 Be6 Re8 50 Rf7+ Kg8 51 Re7+ Kf8 and repetition at 27 ply |
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| Nov-16-11 | | King Death: < Gypsy: <People who praise the old players in endings forget that they adjourned them and analyzed all night.> I am one of those who prizes the players of old for their endgame skills. Of course, I am fully aware of the adjournment issue. I prize them none-the-less because they do deserve credit for their mastery. Btw, a good number of these excelled even before seconds and adjournment analysis became common.)> That wasn't always true. In the older events, there was often a short break for dinner, then it was played out, so it's not too likely that we'd have seen miracles like Botvinnik's save against Fischer. There were no breaks of days between adjournment sessions where there was time to take it apart.
These players had to work hard right then. |
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| Nov-16-11 | | Jambow: This was a very complex game some draws are not worth playing through, this is not one of those games. I thought white had an advantage and it sounds like the engines agreed. Nice job for Carlsen to hold against Aronian. |
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| Nov-17-11 | | TheMacMan: Aronian missed 2 wins! 55.Rxe4! WINS and 50. BC7! WINS |
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| Nov-19-11 | | acirce: From Carlsen's blog:
<Before the game yesterday I listened to “In My Place” by Coldplay and somehow the passage “I was scared, tired and underprepared” hit a cord inside.> http://www.arcticsec.no/index.php?b... |
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| Nov-19-11 | | frogbert: < 55.Rxe4! WINS>
that i'd like to see!
(55. Rxe4 Ra8 is a rather trivial draw.) |
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| Nov-21-11 | | malay1990: may white have little advntg for win..
55.a7 e3
56.Kg2 Ra8
57.Rf4 KXd6
58.Rf7 Re8
59.Kf1 e2+
60.Ke1 g5
61.RXh7 kc6
now white have advntge for win
62.Rg7 Kb6
63.a8=Q1 Rxa8
64.RXg5 Rh8
65.Rg2............... |
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