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Jan-16-12
 | | Rolfo: technical draw, he will next time :) |
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Jan-16-12
 | | al wazir: I think black could have drawn with 57...Rd1+ 58. Kc5 Rxd6+ 59. Kxd6. White wins the  race and queens, but black can reach a stalemate position such as this:
click for larger viewThe white  and  are too far away to help. Maybe white can win by underpromoting, but I haven't found a way. |
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Jan-16-12
 | | Gypsy: <OhioChessFan: <tamar: I think Aronian's error was 53...Rg1. I don't see how Magnus wins after 53...Rh1> I thought the same thing. Rh1/h3 and both Pawns are under attack. The engines don't see much difference, but I think Rh1 was much better in practical terms.> Beginning to look at it now, I am thinking of
53...Rh1 54.Be7 Rh3 55.Ne5+... and Nd3...
Am I right that this should save the b3 pawn and net the b4 pawn? |
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Jan-16-12
| | Gypsy: <al wazir: I think black could have drawn with 57...Rd1+ 58. Kc5 Rxd6+ 59. Kxd6.> 59...Kg4 60.b4 Kxh4 <61.Ne5>... 
click for larger view(a) 61...Kg3 62.Ng6...
(b) 61...Kg5 62.b5 h4 63.Nf3+... |
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Jan-16-12
| | al wazir: <Gypsy: <57...Rd1+ 58. Kc5 Rxd6+ 59. Kxd6> Kg4 60.b4 Kxh4 <61.Ne5>> Yep, that works. Thanks. |
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Jan-16-12
 | | karnak64: <Technical Draw: Super GM's these days! They don't take advice from no one.> I'm sure Carlson sagely ignored your line (we have long suspected that you have a telepathic link with him) so as to prevent any appearance of unauthorized assistance. Prudent lad, that one. |
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Jan-16-12
 | | lost in space: Here an interesting post from <frogbert> elsewhere on CG: <<he has used up about 30 minutes on the last 13 or so moves... I wouldn't call that blitzing.>
i was not talking about the latest moves, i was talking about:36. Kxg2?! (Nxg2!)
43. Be5?! (Ke2!)
44. f8:Q?! (Ke2!)
all of those were played a tempo, i.e. blitzing. carlsen kept playing a tempo after move 40, as if the black bishop (or the pawn on f7) would go away if he didn't take it immediately, without thinking. <Chessbase commentary is talking a little differently than you, so I will hold to hope a little longer...> sure. i'm saying that this is a blockade for black:
click for larger view
as long as the chessbase commentary doesn't tell how white breaks this blockade (or aronian avoids playing Rh1-h3), i think it'll be a draw now.> |
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Jan-16-12
 | | technical draw: <karnak64> <Prudent lad, that one.> True but he made me go through an agonizing sitzkrieg. I won't be able to sit down for a week. |
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Jan-16-12
 | | tamar: <Gypsy> There might be a win, but it is really hard to get that b pawn, as <lost in space> just noted. <Beginning to look at it now, I am thinking of53...Rh1 54.Be7 Rh3 55.Ne5+... and Nd3...
Am I right that this should save the b3 pawn and net the b4 pawn?> After 53...Rh1 54 Be7 Rh3 55 Ne5+ Kf5 56 Nd3 it does look like White is going to mop up the b pawn 
click for larger viewBut Black can play 56...Rg3 preparing to check on g4 chasing the King from the knight. For example, Black holds onto the b pawn after 57 Kc4 Rg4+ 58 Kd5 (or 58 Kb5) Rg3 and to make progress, White has to play either 59 Nc5 or 59 Nc1 |
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Jan-16-12
| | tamar: <“I was completely winning, of course,” he complained to journalists. “All I had to do was to try and find the most accurate way to win.” Apparently, he failed. “No, I didn’t feel good about that but I had to go on, and in the end I won mostly by luck. But a win is a win.” Asked if Aronian might have salvaged a draw, Carlsen said he felt he was “probably still winning” after he “wasted the advantage” but admitted that the Armenian came awfully close to escaping with a half point.> http://www.tatasteelchess.com/tourn... Where another player might have been jubilant, Magnus was self-critical. I just wish he were not so Capa-like, and give the actual moves he thought
he should have played. |
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Jan-16-12
 | | haydn20: I finally looked at 36...Nxg2. If 37. Rxd4? Bc3! wins almost outright. |
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Jan-16-12
 | | twinlark: <tamar>
Too right. Anyone have any idea of where Carlsen is supposed to have fumbled the win? |
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Jan-16-12
 | | lostemperor: Huh my post of right after the game disapeared. At chessbomb GM Miton commentated that 57. Nd3! wins because of 57 Nd3 Re4+ 58 Kd5 Rxh4 59 Nf2 and the rook is trapped just like <frogbert> showing a diagram (also disapeared) where he mentioned the missed quicker win for white. <Ulhumbrus> and <tamar> discussed the moves but concluded a win for white too. However is not it a draw? But after 57 Nd3? Re4+ 58 Kd5 Rxh4 59 Nf2 Rf4 60 Bxf4 Kxf4 61 b4 h4 62 b5 Kf3 63 b6 Kxf2 (Nh1 or Nh3 leads to the same position hwere the king takes on h3 or h1) 64 b7 h3 65 b7-b8Q h2 I think it is a draw is not it? |
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Jan-16-12
| | Gypsy: <tamar: ... There might be a win, but it is really hard to get that b pawn, as <lost in space> just noted. ...
After 53...Rh1 54 Be7 Rh3 55 Ne5+ Kf5 56 Nd3 it does look like White is going to mop up the b pawn ...
But Black can play 56...Rg3 preparing to check on g4 chasing the King from the knight. For example, Black holds onto the b pawn after 57 Kc4 Rg4+ 58 Kd5 (or 58 Kb5) Rg3 and to make progress, White has to play either 59 Nc5 or 59 Nc1
>
It is rather amazing how much trouble that lone rook can cause for the two minors. (Apparently, Tal liked to take the rook (and a pawn or two) versus the minors, but Tal did it when the dynamical imbalance favored the nimbler piece.) The problem for Levon here is that White has the time to eventually synchronize his K+B+N sufficiently well. I think you have given Magnus' line already: 53...Rh1 54 Be7 Rh3 55 Ne5+ Kf5 56 Nd3...
56...<Rg3> 57.Kc4 Rg4+ 58.Kb5 <Rg3 59.Nc1...> 
click for larger viewAnd it now looks like Black can not hold onto the b-pawn much longer; e.g., 59...Rg4 60.<Na2> Ke6 61.Bd8 Kd7 62.Bg5 <Rxg5> Since the b-pawn falls, Black desperado. But it fails for a want of a tempo 63.hxg5 h4 64.Nxb4 (or 64.Nc1) h3 65.Nd3 h2 66.Nf2... |
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Jan-16-12
| | Gypsy: <lostemperor: Huh my post of right after the game disapeared. At chessbomb GM Miton commentated that 57. Nd3! wins because of 57 Nd3 Re4+ 58 Kd5 Rxh4 59 Nf2 and the rook is trapped just like <frogbert> showing a diagram (also disapeared) where he mentioned the missed quicker win for white. <Ulhumbrus> and <tamar> discussed the moves but concluded a win for white too. However is not it a draw? But after 57 Nd3? Re4+ 58 Kd5 Rxh4 59 Nf2 Rf4 60 Bxf4 Kxf4 61 b4 h4 62 b5 Kf3 63 b6 Kxf2 ...> Instead of 63.b6, try
63.<Ne4>...
click for larger view(a) 63...Kg2 64.Ng5...
(b) 63...Kg4 65.b6 h3 66.Nf2+... |
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Jan-16-12
| | Gypsy: And, adding to my previous post,
(c) 63...h3 64.Ng5+...
of course. |
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| Jan-16-12 | | Reggie T: <al-Wazir> From your stalemate diagram, i would try 1.Qf3+ Kg1 2. Qe3+ Kf1 3. Qc1+ Kg2 4. Qd2+ Kg1 5. Qe1+ Kg2 6. Qe2+ Kg1 7. Ne5! h1=Q 8. Nf3+ winning the new-born queen :-) |
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Jan-16-12
| | tamar: <lostemperor> 66 Qxh2+ at the end of your line |
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Jan-16-12
 | | wordfunph: "I was completely winning of course and I tried to find the most accurate and a great way to win and evidently I didn't. Probably it was winning to the end and if so it was only by luck. A win is a win." - Magnus Carlsen
http://www.chess.co.uk/twic/chessne... |
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| Jan-16-12 | | WiseWizard: Have there been any strategic wins for Black after 7. g6? |
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Jan-16-12
 | | Pedro Fernandez: But 7...g6?! What's the idea? Why not 7...0-0? If you move your bishop to e7, 7...g6 doesn't make sense. |
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| Jan-16-12 | | WiseWizard: I think it's to develop Bf5..any Black wins after Qc2? |
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| Jan-16-12 | | Penguincw: At least it wasn't boring like last time: Aronian vs Carlsen, 2011. |
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Jan-16-12
 | | blue wave: Just been looking at move 32 for Carlsen with a chess engine to help. 
click for larger viewhaircs13.2 - multiPV[2]
Depth : 26/1
Time : 01:02:43
Nodes : 9939755K
N/sec : 2641327
Score : +2.52
32. Rf2 Qxd4 33. Nxb4 Rc3 34. Nc6 Rxc6 35. Qxc6 Bxe5 36. Qg2 Qa7 37. Kh1 Rd3 38. Rf3 Rxf3 39. Qxf3 Qxa2 40. Rf1 Qa7 41. Kg2 Bd4 42. Re1 Nf8 43. Qd5 Ne6 44. b4 Qb6 45. Rf1 Qc7 46. Qf3 Qd7 47. b5 Bc5 48. Bc3 f5 49. Qe2 Score : +2.15
32. Qe4 Rxa2 33. Bf4 Qd7 34. Nxb4 Rb2 35. h4 Rxb3 36. Nc6 Re8 37. d5 Qg4 38. Qc2 Rb7 39. Rb1 Rxb1 Carlsen played Kh1. But is seems Carlsen had better options that where missed. Can't blame him though, its a complicated position. The king seems to be in firing line of blacks Queen. 32.Kh1 seems natural enough. |
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Jan-16-12
| | blue wave: I can't understand why he didn't play 34.e7?
This line would have ended the game much quicker.
For example -
<1. c4 e6 2. Nc3 d5 3. d4 Be7 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Bf4 c6 6. Qc2 Nf6 7. h3 g6 8. e3
Bf5 9. Qd2 h5 10. Bd3 Bxd3 11. Qxd3 Nbd7 12. Nge2 a5 13. O-O O-O 14. f3 b5 15.
e4 dxe4 16. fxe4 Nc5 17. Qf3 Ne6 18. Be3 b4 19. Nb1 Nh7 20. Nd2 Rc8 21. Rad1
Bh4 22. g3 Bf6 23. Nc4 Bg7 24. b3 Qe7 25. Qg2 Nc7 26. Nxa5 Rfe8 27. e5 Nd5 28.
Bd2 Red8 29. Nf4 Qa7 30. Nxc6 Rxc6 31. Nxd5 Rc2 32. Kh1 Bf8 33. e6 Qa8> 34. e7 Rxd5 35. e8=Q Qxe8 36. Qxd5 Rxa2 37. Rde1 Qa8 38. Qxa8 Rxa8 39. Ra1 Rd8 40. Be3
Rd7 41. Ra6 Kg7 42. Kg2 Be7 43. Rfa1 *
click for larger viewhiarcs13.2mp
Score : +3.18
Depth : 27/1
Time : 00:08:52
Nodes : 1938938K
N/sec : 3641654
43... Bg5 44. Bf2 Bf6 45. R6a4 Ng5 46. Rxb4 Ne4 47. Be3 Nc3 48. Rc4 Nd5 49. Bf2 Bg5 50. Rca4 Bd8 51. Ra7 Rd6 52. Rb7 Bb6 53. Re1 Kf6 54. Kf3 |
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