Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

(If you register a free account you won't see all these ads!)
John D Thornton vs Louis Sanchez
Tradewise Gibraltar (2012), Catalan Bay GIB, rd 2, Jan-25
English Opening: General (A10)  ·  0-1


explore this opening
find similar games 40 more games of J D Thornton
sac: 16...Nxd3 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can make these tips go away by registering a free account then visiting your preferences page. Simply check the option "Don't show random tips on game pages." and click the Update Profile button at the bottom.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: Curiously, I forgot the bishop in my line B.1, and typed 23... Qxg2 instead of 23... Ne2#.

I should have calculated a little further in line B.2. After 23... Ne2+ White can play 24.Kh2 because the pawn on h2 was captured so there's no intermediate check when playing 24... Rxf1. However, after 24... Nxc3 25.Rxf8+ Kxg7 Black can save the knight.

Actually, the best line seems to be

B.2) 22.Kg1 Rh1+ (instead of 22... Rg2+) 23.Bxh1 (23.Kxh1 Qh3+ 24.Kg1 Ne2#) 23... Ne2+ 24.Kh2 Rxf1

B.2.a) 25.Qe3 Rxa1 26.Qxe2 Kxg7 - + [R+2P vs B].

B.2.b) 25.Rxf1 Nxc3, etc.

Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: I am surprised how easily I found this. Maybe my tactical skills are improving. <FSR> do you ever sleep?
Apr-04-12  newzild: WEDNESDAY: 4.57pm - 5.09pm

White has a brutal discovered check looming, so Black must act fast. Candidates:




Let's try the last one first:

21. Rxf4 Rxf4
22. gxf4 Rxb2

White has a bishop for two pawns. Let's try:


21. Bxg2

Or 21. Kh1 Rxh2+ 22. Kxh2 (22. Kg1 Rg2+ - ) Qh3+ 23. Kg1 Ne2#


22. Kh1 Rxf1+

23. Rxf1 Nxc3

24. bxc3 Kxg7

With two pawns and a queen for rook and knight, Black is winning.

Time to check.

Apr-04-12  newzild: I missed the fascinating variations provided by <Phony Benoni> and <FSR>. Well spotted, lads!
Apr-04-12  viking78: missed it today, didn't saw Ne2# so I thought Kxh2 Qh3+ Kg1 is safe for White.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Oxspawn: Spent a little time thinking it was white to move and wondering what the problem was since black is pretty well doomed. Then woke up, played with the idea of Nh3+ before settling on Rg2+. I like it because it makes white box the king in with the bishop, a defender that in the end just gets in the way.

20. Rg2+
21. Bxg2 Ne2 forks the King and queen
22. Kh1 (forced) Rxf1+ (otherwise the black rook is lost for nothing) 23 Rxf1 Nxc3

I didn’t find a mate but this leaves black with Q+N+5p versus white’s R+B+N+5p, each with one piece hanging. Is that a win for black?

If after
20. Rg2+
21. Kh1 Rxh2+
22 Kxh2 Qh3+
And white cannot prevent mate on g2

By the way – how do I go back to a game kibitzed at an earlier date if I can remember the date but not name of the game?

Apr-04-12  newzild: I did a rare thing and opened Rybka 2.2 to check. The best line, according to the silicon monster, is this:

20. Kh1 Rxh2+
21. Kg1 Rh1+
22. Bxh1 Ne2+
23. Kh2 Rxf1
24. Qe3 Rxa1
25. Ne6 Rxh1+
26. Kxh1 Nxg3+
27. Qxg3 Qxe6

Black has a three-pawn advantage in this queen ending.

Definitely a tough one for Wednesday!

I missed this line in my initial analysis, so no point for me today...

Premium Chessgames Member
  Oxspawn: Whoops I threw it away in the last line - the white bishop is still there to prevent the queen mate. As <Phony Benoni et al> have pointed out, the position gets quite diffixult and beyond my powers without shifting pieces around.
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: Oh no, I have been fork-blind today. Hope it's just a shortterm thingy and curable.
Apr-04-12  Memethecat: Blacks position is fragile. This should make solving the puzzle easier as its all or nothing.

20...Rg2+ 21Bxg2¹Ne2+ 22Kh1 Rxf1+ 23Rxf1 Nxc3

¹21Kh1 Rxh2+ 22Kxh2 (22Kg1 Ne2+ 23Kxh2 Nxc3) Qh3+ 23Kg1 Ne2#


Pleased I saw the R swap as well, but I almost got this very wrong. I wrote a mate in 4 winning line (with variations) then spotted whites LSB & had to start again. Chess blindness.

Premium Chessgames Member
  TheaN: Wednesday 4 April 2012


Material: White up, ♗ vs ♙

Candidates: Qh3, Nh3†, <[Rg2†]>

The easy part of this puzzle comes from the fact that White's threats are so alarming (any N move with a fatal discovery check, and the Black N on f4 en prise and pinned) that Black's options are only full forcing moves, checks. Black has only two: 20....Nh3† doesn't do much after Kh1, however, the other one is interesting.

<20....Rg2†!> defended rooks on the second rank are usually a sign for trouble and White will know it. The passive sidestep 21.Kh1 makes 21....Rxh2† forced, which follows 22.Kxh2 (after Kg1 again Rg2† or immediately Ne2†) Qh3† 23.Kg1 Ne2‡ 0-1, getting the Queen in with tempo. Hench:

<21.Bg2 Ne2† 22.Kh1 Rxf1† 23.Rxf1> what Black has done in only a handful of halfmoves is to remove the knight from f4 with tempo, exchanged the en prise rook on f8 with tempo and fork the white king and queen. As such:

<23....Nxc3> removes any sting in White's attack, the Knight on g7 is suddenly also en prise and can't escape, White lost his queen for rook, as after:

<24.bxc3 Kxg7 > Black's up indeed a queen for rook and bishop with a dominating position to boot. And all that in just five halfmoves.

Apr-04-12  Memethecat: <Phony Benoni><FSR> Good work! I was struggling with the 23Kxh2 problem, but by then I was on my 2nd round because of the invisible LSB so just fudged it.

A lot of work for Wednesday.

Premium Chessgames Member
  gofer: Black is a piece down and cannot simply recapture.

20 ... Qxg7 21 Qxg7+ Kxg7 22 gxf4 keeps white's advantage.

Also, white has the huge threat of 21 Ne6+ Re5 (forced) 22 Nxf8 at which point its all over, but white has slightly misjudged his attack and left his own king quite exposed.

<20 ... Rg2+>

21 Bxg2 Ne2+ 22 Kh1 Rxf1+ 23 Rxf1 Nxc3

White cannot retake immediately. He must be patient.

<21 Kh1 Rxh2+!>

22 Kxh2 Qh3+ 23 Kg1 Ne2#

<22 Kg1 ...>

Now, ironically, Ne2+ loses for black!

22 ... Ne2+ 23 Kxh2 Nxc3 24 Rxf8+ Kxg7 25 Rf7+ Qxf7 26 Bxf7!

Immediately repeating the original tactic is okay even though the king has an extra flight square, but leaves things a little less than clear!

22 ... Rg2+ 23 Bxg2 Ne2+ 24 Kh2! Rxf1!?

But black still has a couple of tricks up his sleeve!

<22 ... Rh1+!>

23 Kxh1 Qh3+ 24 Kg1 Ne2#
23 Kf2 Nxd5+!

<22 Bxh1 Ne2+>
<23 Kh2 Rxf1!>

The rook is immune!

24 Rxf1 Nxc3

<24 Q anywhere Rxa1>

Black is a probably going to be an exchange and two pawns up.

Now this is far too much for a Wednesday, so I have probably missed something amazing or white walked into one of the losing variations...

Time to check.


It was the latter. I wonder what Fritz says?!

Premium Chessgames Member
  gofer: <Oxspawn> just click on your name and you are taken to everything you have ever written on this site...

...whether it is good and bad we can all review what we have left here!


Apr-04-12  ferri1234: For M. Hassan who wrote:

Other posibility is:

21.Kh1 Rxh2+
22.Kxh2 Qh3+
23.Kg1 Qg2#

No. Qg2 is not possible, since the white bishop is still present on the board. But the mate is possible: ...23Ne2#

Apr-04-12  David2009: J D Thornton vs L Sanchez, 2012 Black 20...?

Wild position but Black just gets there first:
20...Rg2+! and now (A) 21.Bxg2 Ne2+ 22.Kh1 Rxf1+! 23.B or Rxf1 Nxc3 makes it easy for Black: (B) 21.Kh1 Rxh2+ 22.Kg1! and Black has a choice - take the draw starting 22...Rg2+ or play for more with 22...Rh1+ 23.Bxh1! Ne2+ 24.Kh2 Rxf1! If now 25.Nf5+ Nxc3! so 25.Qe3 Rxa8 26.Bd5 and White loses on material. I think we'll play for more. Time to check:
I got enough of it, <Phony Benoni> and others got there first. Here's the puzzle position with Black to play:

click for larger view

This is a good position for <sevenseaman> to set up colours-reversed on Crafty End Game Trainer using his new-found skills: see sevenseaman chessforum

Premium Chessgames Member
  LoveThatJoker: <20...Rg2+ 21.Bxg2>

[21.Kh1 Rxh2+ 22. Kg1 (22. Kxh2 Qh3+ 23. Kg1 Ne2#) 22...Rh1+ 23. Kf2 (23.Kxh1 Qh3+ 24. Kg1 Ne2#) 23...Nxd5+ 24. Nf5+ (24. Kg2 Qh3#; 24. Ke1 Rhxf1+ and 25...Nxc3 ; 24. Ke2 Nxc3+ ) 24...Nxc3 ]

<21...Ne2+ 22. Kh1 Rxf1+ 23. Rxf1 Nxc3 24. bxc3 Qxg7>

(24...Kxg7 25. Bxb7 c6! also looks very good for Black)

<25. Bxb7>

(25. Bd5 c6 )

<25...Qxc3 26. Bd5 Qd4+ 27. Kg2 c6 (so as to destroy the Bishop's comfortable outpost)>

Conclusion: Black has a decent advantage and may still win. This said the position is voiding itself of pawns and White may be able to hold this. Yet seeing as how the puzzle position at "20...?" was very double-edged, Black is happy to have to have an advantage and if he converts it into a win then all the better.


Premium Chessgames Member
  LoveThatJoker: I would just like to add that in my main line

20...Rg2+ 21.Bxg2 Ne2+ 22. Kh1 Rxf1+ 23. Rxf1 Nxc3 24. bxc3 Qxg7 25. Bxb7 25...Qxc3 26. Bd5 <c6>

While coming up with this final part of my main line, I had forgotten that the K had already been forced to h1 - through looking at the diagram, I thought it was still on g1.

Thankfully this doesn't affect my earning the full point for today.

I would like to add that after the mainline 20...Rg2+ 21.Bxg2 Ne2+ 22. Kh1 Rxf1+ 23. Rxf1 Nxc3 24. bxc3 Qxg7 25. Bxb7 25...Qxc3 26. Bd5 <c6>, it is obvious to me now that Black is clearly winning and my original evaluation of is better expressed as a full .


Premium Chessgames Member
  WinKing: This seems about right for a Wednesday. Not too taxing on the mind but it makes you think a little.

21.Bxg2 <[if 21.Kh1 Rxh2+ 22.Kg1(or 22.Kxh2 Qh3+ 23.Kg1 Ne2#) Rg2+ - now if 23.Kh1 then ...Qh3#]>

22.Kh1 Rxf1+ <(not 22...Nxc3?? 23.Rxf8+ & white lives!)>

23.Rxf1 Nxc3
24.bxc3 Kxg7 <(& black should win this ending)>

Premium Chessgames Member
  CHESSTTCAMPS: In this two-sided attacking position, white has a bishop for a pawn and threatens serious discovered checks by the knight. The response 20... Qxg7?? is met simply by 21.Rxf4 and black remains a piece down. But the active Re2 can deliver a remarkable counter punch.

20... Rg2+!

Once again, a forcing move setting up a royal fork is decisive for the attacking side:

A) 21.Bxg2 Ne2+ 22.Kh1 Rxf1+ 23.Rxf1 Nxc3 24.bxc3 Kxg7 25.Bxb7 c6 26.Ba6 Qc7 and the Q should beat the uncoordinated B+R in the ending.

B) 21.Kh1 Rxh2+ 22.Kxh2 (Kg1 Rg2+ 23.Bxg2 [otherwise 23.Qh3#] Ne2+ is worse than A) Qh3+ 23.Kg1 Ne2#

Time for review...

Premium Chessgames Member
  CHESSTTCAMPS: I see from prior kibitzing that B is flawed - a common board vision problem experienced by many.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: Oh yah! Bad start, now 2/3.
Premium Chessgames Member
  WinKing: I see there are a few 'tricks' involved with today's puzzle. Excellent work by <Phony Benoni> & <FSR> to get to the truth of the position.
Apr-04-12  goodevans: Way too hard for a Wednesday!

Here's the position after 20... Rg2+ 21.Kh1 Rxh2+ 22.Kg1

click for larger view

Black must now play <22... Rh1+> after which <23.Bxh1 Ne2+ 24.Kh2 Rxf1 25.Qe3 Rxa1 26.Ne6 Rxh1+ 27.Kxh1 Nxg3+> leaves him two pawns up.

Note that <22... Rg2+> is not as good because after <23.Bxg2 Ne2+ 24.Kh2 Rxf1 25.Qe3 Rxa1 26.Ne6> the B capture is not available and it is black that is on the back foot.

Apr-04-12  goodevans: I find that if post a "Friday" puzzle on a Wednesday I don't give it sufficient thought. I don't look for all the tricks and nuances that I would look for when the puzzle is declared "difficult". When I later see this all then I get disappointed that I hadn't spent more time on the puzzle in the first place.

But maybe that's <MY> problem, not's. Maybe I should treat the early week puzzles with a bit more respect just in case they are harder than their classification suggests.

Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 4)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, totally anonymous, and 100% free--plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, or duplicating posts.
  3. No personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No posting personal information of members.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform an administrator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, you might try the Kibitzer's Café.
Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of, its employees, or sponsors.
Spot an error? Please submit a correction slip and help us eliminate database mistakes!
This game is type: CLASSICAL (Disagree? Please submit a correction slip.)

Featured in the Following Game Collections [what is this?]
Eng 0-1 23 drag
from xfer's favorite games 2011 by xfer
English Opening (A10) 0-1 The temptation here...
from English Muffins + Fredthebear Bonus Games by fredthebear
English Opening (A10) 0-1 The temptation here...
from White Ne2 Waved to Fredthebear by fredthebear
20...? (Wednesday, April 4)
from Puzzle of the Day 2012 by Phony Benoni
20) . . . black to move
from Wednesday by Arcturus
20...? (April 4, 2012)
from Wednesday Puzzles, 2011-2017 by Phony Benoni
after rg2 what?
from spartakov's favorite games by spartakov

home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us
Copyright 2001-2018, Chessgames Services LLC