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Loek van Wely vs Magnus Carlsen
Tata Steel (2012)  ·  Dutch Defense: Stonewall. Modern Variation (A40)  ·  1/2-1/2
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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 6 OF 6 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-29-12  Ulhumbrus: <<Ulhumbrus> Nxd5 Bf7, Nxf6+> 30...Qxf6 31. Bb2 and White has an edge :-)> In fact Black is in trouble because White threatens Qc3. This suggests that in the sequence above instead of 29..Bf7, 29...Ne4 may be better.
Jan-29-12  capanegra: It is a draw. All WV has to do us put hisK in a3 and shuffle his B through the b8-f4 diagonal. There is no way Black can improve.
Jan-29-12  SoundWave: This looks drawn now.
Jan-29-12  frogbert: capanegra, it's worse actually. :o) all white needs to do, is put his king on a1. he doesn't even need to defend his g-pawn - he can simply sacrifice the bishop for black's f-pawn and hold the draw against B and two pawns.
Jan-29-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Kinghunt: White could even sac his bishop for the black f pawn and still draw.
Jan-29-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: Without kingside pawns white even needs his B, Ka1-b1 secures the draw.
Jan-29-12  timhortons: magnus tried to squeeze blood out of a turnip, nice try but its not hard to see its a draw.
Jan-29-12  Penguincw: A draw it is! Geez. I wouldn't really say short games (3 hours) but more like they're in a rush or something. We still have Kamsky-Topalov and Caruana-Gelfand. I perfer Kamsky-Topaov.
Jan-29-12  capanegra: <frogbert> So true. :)
Jan-29-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: Caruna is still playing against Gelfand. A win will bring him shared 2.-4. place.
Jan-29-12  kia0708: oh noooo, one more draw today
Jan-29-12  Penguincw: In Group B, Bruzon compromised L'Ami chances of winning.
Jan-29-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  hoodrobin: Vanitas vanitatum, et omnia vanitas.
Jan-29-12  Penguincw: Carlsen, in the final position, up two pawns, but pawn structure matters. Double a-pawns aren't helping.
Jan-29-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  waustad: Wrong color queening square to even consider playing on.
Jan-29-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  hoodrobin: Caruana emulating MC?
Jan-29-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  paulalbert: Interesting how inept computers are in these kind of endgames unless they get to a position which can use a built in table base. I plugged this final position into Crafty on ICC. It concludes black is winning by -1.61. The computers also will exhaust every variation at the end to avoid three fold repetition and then advance P h6 to h7 until finally the 50 move rule mandates a draw. Knowledgeable humans of course see the wrong colored bishop issue immediately and avoid 100 moves of useless maneuvering.
Jan-29-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  hoodrobin: <paulalbert> Unfortunately you have to reach the endgame to beat the computer (speaking of myself of course).
Jan-29-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  paulalbert: <hoodrobin> Probably even more true of me at my age than you, especially if you try to take on a computer at its higher level of play. At lower level settings if you get through the middle game without a tactical blunder, you can benefit sometimes from computer endgame ineptitude. Of course that's not really a meaningful result, but who likes to lose every time, even if it's supposed to be instructive.
Jan-29-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  hoodrobin: <paulalbert> I agree, thanks. I appreciate your profile, it's very instructive (but I'm not in my teens). :)
Jan-29-12  Penguincw: Well, if you're not going to do any more live games, then thanks for the broadcast. :)
Jan-29-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <paulalbert> Donít be so harsh on the engines. Their evaluation depends on both the engine and the position. With my version of Crafty 23.4 it's evaluation was [-1.33] at d=37. Here is what other engines came up with after about 30 secs of calculation (I'm a chess engine junkie):

Critter 1.4: [-0.61], d=28
Houdini 1.5c: [-0.33], d=27
Komodo 3.0: [-0.38], d=28
Protector 1.4: [-0.04], d=32
Rybka 4.1: [-0.96], d=28
Spark 1.0: [-0.71], d=29
Spike 1.4: [-0.02], d=28
Stockfish 2.2.2: [-1.37], d=36
Toga II 2.0: [-1.03], d=26

So at least Protector 1.4 and Spike 1.4 (maybe it's that 1.4?) got it right. But that's this position. With different positions I suspect that those 2 engines would get it wrong and other engines would get it right. That's why I believe that when analyzing a position you need to try several engines, and then review their suggestions carefully before coming to any conclusions.

Jan-29-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  paulalbert: The disparity of evaluation is interesting. Actually I have no computer engine at all, so going to Crafty on ICC or playing computer on Chessgames here from positions is all I can do.
Jan-29-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: Yes, all engines give somewhat different evaluations since they all have different evaluation functions. And, because chess engines are non-deterministic, particularly multi-processing engines, the same engine on different days will give different evaluations of the same position (although not as different as the evaluation from a different engine). That's why I always try to run 3 or 4 different engines on the analysis of each position and see how well they agree. I'm very fortunate that I have 2 computers that I can use for this.

You should consider downloading one or two engines and play around with them. Many of the best ones are free, as is the Arena GUI.

Jan-30-12  timhortons: < I'm very fortunate that I have 2 computers that I can use for this.>

was there a point where magnus or van wely make a huge advantage in this game?

its vain to call players names just because the game are drawn.

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