< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Feb-18-12|| ||kevin86: OK,I gotta say it:PAP SMEARED!!
The bishop sac sets this one off. Black's position collapses soon after.
|Feb-18-12|| ||gofer: <20 Bxg6 ...>
If black doesn't take then we move into a pretty bad position for black
pretty soon. 20 ... fxe5 21 Bxh7+ Kh8 22 Bxg7+ Kxg7 23 Qg6+ Kh8 24 fxe5
white has three pawns for his bishop and it threatening to get a bishop
back because black has no time to to play Be7 or Ba3 or Bc7 as that would
allow the terminal Rf7 at which point black is lost.
<20 ... hxg6>
<21 Bxg7! ...>
Ouch. The bishop is immune 21 ... Kxg7 22 Qxg6+ mating. Black cannot allow Qxg6
as this would set up a deadly discovered check. So black must find a defense.
21 ... Re7/Qc7 22 Bxf6
21 ... Bf8 22 Bxf8 (Rxf8 23 Qxg6+ Kh8 24 Nf7+ ) Kxf8 23 Nxg6+
21 ... Qe7 22 Qxg6 Qxg7 23 Qxe8+
Time to check...
Hmmm. Not quite the way I thought it would go...
|Feb-18-12|| ||1.e4effort: first post in quite awhile, don't have a ton of time for chess these days, sad to say. anyway, got the first move after about a minute. it's the only move that makes sense to me, and it puts black in a pickle, or in keeping with the theme of the day, puts him on the short end of the stick. i wasn't sure of black's reply - take the knight or the bish. without straining my noodle to badly, neither move looked better than the other, but one of 'em had to be made, so i took a guess and for <once> i guessed right. black has some play, but white would have to screw up pretty badly to lose from his position after 21.|
|Feb-18-12|| ||Limpin Kt: <memethecat> Thanku.. But i have very little resources available for chess study. Thought if somebody who already knows things wil guide me. :) if u are also a QP opening player, any advise over any line wil be very very helpful.|
|Feb-18-12|| ||cormier: 12...Ndf6?|
|Feb-18-12|| ||cormier: 10...h6 is better than ...Re8|
|Feb-18-12|| ||BOSTER: I guess that black didn't has enough nerves seeing the white knight on e5.|
Black could not stand him and played f6 , weakening the pawn structure near black king.
So,maybe white knight is <desperado>.
I didn't consider Nxg6 (to trivial).
I'd prefer to have white queen on g6.
Where to move the knight (Nf7,Nc6,Nc4)?, or better to leave it on e5, because if black play fxe5, white can open "f" file with tempo.
One line 20.Bxg6 fxe5
23.fxe5 and black has not a good defense.
22.Rd3 and white has a strong attack.
But how said Euwe "Much is still up in the air".
|Feb-18-12|| ||sethoflagos: <<catfriend:> In your final position, simply take 26.Bxg7 with victory.>|
26.Bg7 taking Q for N is a definite win and probably the move I'd pick myself OTB.
But there are quite a few better moves. I let Crafty chew on the position and after 5 hours he eventually came up with
26.Rde1 Be7 27.Bg5 Kf8 28.Nh6 Ke8 29.Nxf7 Qc7 30.Qxg7 fxg5 31.f6 Be6 32.Rxe6 Kd7 33.Ne5+ Kxe6 34.Qf7+ Kd6 35.fxe7 Qxe7 36.Rf6+ Kc7 37.Qxe7+ Kb8 38.Nc6+ bxc6 39.Rf8#
|Feb-18-12|| ||Memethecat: <Limpin Kt> In the time it would take you to read my advice, you'd have been able to find someone who knew what they were talking about.|
|Feb-18-12|| ||Gypsy: First, an exploratory variation:
<1.Bxg6 hxg6 2.Qxg6 ~ 3.Rd3...>
Black looks toast: Broken K-side, half of pieces out of play, and all White pieces barreling upon the king. White attack looks like it can play itself.
Now, what can that Black <~> be? To stop the checkmate, we are down to only Re7, Qc7, Qe7, and Bf8. Natural 2...Re7 (and also 2...Qe7) makes the Bd6 all that more useless. Perhaps 2...Qc7 then? Don't see anything that forcing after that. But the rook-lift attack is still good.
Perhaps, things would be more forcing after 1.Nxg6 hxg6 2.Bxg6... But I like it less intuitively. First, that Ne5 looks useful where it is. And poisonous, untouchable; it must be a Black suicide to open the f-file. Second, I want the Q at g6, or about, before I play Rd3. So, thus far I like the opening <1.Bxg6> better than 1.Ng6; unless I find a forced win after the latter.
How about the second move: There really is no sensible alternative to 1...hxg6. But 2.Bxg7 looks playable. <1.Bxg6 hxg6 2.Bxg7...> ... Oho! <2...Kxg7 3.Qxg6+ ...> and the game is done. ... But <2...Bf5> 3.Qxb7 fxe5 and Black pieces are waking up.
Perhaps 1.Bxg7 then? The line could go:
1.Bxg7 Kxg7 2.Bxg6 fxe5 3.Bxe8 Qxe8 4.fxe5 Bf8 5.Rd3...
This looks good. Winning good. But do I like it better than the original idea (1.Bxg6 hxg6 2.Qxg6...)? No, not really. Come on, White gets two or three pawns for a B and an attack that plays easily; rook-lifts are coming, the f-pawn can advance ... But, oh well, I can not find a forcing win; but that is what I would play.
|Feb-18-12|| ||Crispy Seagull: Sokolov jumped for joy when he saw fxe5.|
|Feb-18-12|| ||agb2002: The material is even.
Black threatens 20... fxe5 and 20... Nf5.
The weaknesses in the black castle invite to play 20.Bxg6:
A) 20... hxg6 21.Qxg6
A.1) 21... Qe7 22.Bxg7 Bf5 (22... Qxg7 23.Qxe8+ + - [R+N+2P vs 2B]; 22... fxe5 23.Bf6+ + - [Q+2P vs 2B]) 23.Qxf5 Qxg5 24.Ng4 + - [N+2P vs B].
A.2) 21... Re7 22.Qxf6
A.2.a) 22... Bxd6 23.dxe5
A.2.a.i) 23... Bd7 24.Rxd5 with four pawns for the knight and several threats (Rfd1, Bxg7 combined with e6, etc.).
A.2.a.ii) 23... Bg4 24.Rxd5 Qxd5 25.Qxe7 Nf5 26.Qg5+ Kh8 27.Qxg4 Rg8 28.Qf3 Qxf3 29.Rxf3 Nxh6 30.h3 and White has the better endgame.
A.2.a.iii) 23... Nf5 24.Rxd5 Qe8 25.e6 Nxh6 26.Qxh6 with the threat 27.Rg5+.
A.2.b) 22... Nf5 23.Qg6+ Ng7 (23... Kh8 24.Bg5) 24.f5 looks bad for Black.
A.3) 21... Bf8 22.Qf7+
A.3.a) 22... Kh8 23.Ng6+ Kh7 24.Nxf8+ and mate next.
A.3.b) 22... Kh7 23.Ng6 Qd7 24.Nxf8+ Rxf8 25.Qxf8 Kxh6 26.Re1 with the threat 27.Re7.
B) 20... Bxe5 21.Bxh7+
B.1) 21... Kh8 22.Bxg7+ Kxg7 23.Qg6+ Kh8 (23... Kf8 24.fxe5 f5 25.Qg8+ Ke7 26.Qg7+ Ke6 27.Bxf5#) 24.Qh6 Re7 (24... Qe7 25.Be4+) 25.Bg6+ Kg8 26.fxe5 + -.
B.2) 21... Kf8 22.fxe5 + -.
B.3) 21... Kf7 22.Qg6+ Ke6 23.fxe5 + -.
C) 20... fxe5 21.Bxh7+ Kh8 22.fxe5
C.1) 22... Bc7 23.Bxg7+ Kxg7 24.Qg6+ Kh8 25.Rf7 + -.
C.2) 22... Bf8 23.Qg6 Re6 (23... Qe7 24.Rf7; 23... Re7 24.Bg5) 24.Rf6 threatening 25.Rxe6 and 25.Rdf1.
|Feb-18-12|| ||Patriot: Black threatens 20...fxe6.
Usually in this situation I would be tempted to play 20.Nxg6 and win a few pawns for the piece plus an attack. But here I think 20.Bxg6 is better, but is really unclear and complicated.
A) 20...fxe5 21.Bxh7+ Kh8 (21...Kf7 22.fxe5+ ) 22.fxe5 And I'm getting at least 3 pawns for a piece plus an attack.
B) 20...hxg6 21.Qxg6
B.1) 21...Bf8 22.Qf7+ Kh7 23.Qg6+ at least draws while 22...Kh8 23.Ng6+ Kh7 24.Nxf8+ wins
B.2) 21...Qe7 22.Bxg7 Bf5 23.Qxf5 looks unclear. For example 23...Kxg7 24.Rd3 looks very strong.
B.3) 21...Re7 22.Qxf6 looks like it's getting enough compensation.
It looks like there are so many twists and turns in this. I started calculating 22.Qg6 in line A but it looks very unclear since there are a lot of possible defenses.
|Feb-18-12|| ||Jimfromprovidence: I really liked 22 f5.
click for larger view
As the text shows, 22...fxe5? is no good because of 23 f6.
If, say, instead white tries 22 Rf3?, then 22...fxe5 is now OK because of 23 f5 Bxf5.
click for larger view
Another interesting line off of 22 f5 is 22... Qe7. That loses to 23 Ng4! ( with the unstoppable threat 24 Nxf6+)
click for larger view
|Feb-18-12|| ||James D Flynn: I immediately thought 20.Bxg6 looked very strong. If 20...h7xg6 21.Qxg6 and Black has 3 possible answers to the mate threat:
A. 21...Qe7 22.Bxg7 Qxg7 23.Qxe8+ Bf8 24.f5 Bxf5 25.Qxa8 and White's material advantage will win. if 24.. fxe5 25.f6 Qf7 26.Qxe5 Qe6 27.qg5+ White will play Rd3 next with an overwhelming attack against the K.|
B. 21..Bf8 22.f5 fxe5 23.f6 Qd7 24.f7+ Kh8 25.Bxg7 Bxg7 26.Qh5+ Bh6 27. Qxh6# or 22….. Bxf5 23.Qf7+ Kh7 24.Rxf5 Re7 25.Qg6+ Kh8 26.Ng4 Qe8 27 Bxg7+ Rxg7 28.Rh5+ Kg8 Nxf6#
C. 21…..Re7 22.f5 Qe8 26.Qxf6 Bxe5 27.dxe5 and the passed pawns supported by the rooks will win.
|Feb-18-12|| ||chrisowen: g6 the apostle it her in g6 f6 it draws in hold king hes equal |
fact I preference in high call black rook e7 for file
g7 and f5 king I con in ko I tussle for jump queen in good
circle drawing white too rooks it place in action ear for glib again net in tax pawn f5 ever in exchange it shape for mate see too in tip it tres bon f6 bishop out I fancy might
feed initiative what hinges you e7 in adjust it snowier than f8 I
like big bishop in reticence
|Feb-18-12|| ||chrisowen: aced in got it free squeeze brave the pan
handle light i try in bxg6 our bonker in why it advantage
stint it alive in danger it the first in g6 pxg6 qxg6 as pumped
it a kin for heading off in germain st re note glaring amble in
king expose round up pawns and piece g7 oo dame should it tower
e7 or rare treat in swallow ground it out in f8 to foot the bill
queen tab in game g7 and it drops in e8 lght wave spur on e5 it
her buy in chap again stick you just in f5 line I missed it took
over batter riff you see for us right it homage in grave
undertaking get you lip in sink it ok in arrive knight it he in
f5 elm I crowd little feint 20.Bxg6 weave got bit carried away
queen follow up here f6 looking suspect it up periscope; lean in
wide a re7 oversees in g7 but qxf6 heckle in knight it cycle on
in clink again f5 ar a thing either in point f6 the key it trap
|Feb-18-12|| ||The Rocket: My move Bxg7... Kxg6 Bxg6 line wins faster than this solution line according to Houdini. So I solved it too! :|
|Feb-18-12|| ||BOSTER: <FSR> <20.Bxg6 hxg6 21.Bxg7 fxe5>.|
<sevenseaman> < 21...Bf5> is right ,because after 21...Bf5 ,in between move, and if 22.Qxb7 Re7, or 22.Qb3 Kxg7 23.Qxd5 black is better.
|Feb-18-12|| ||Bobby Fiske: Something takes on g6. Thats all I can manage in my Cognac haze on a Saturday night. Sorry.|
|Feb-18-12|| ||FSR: <sevenseaman><BOSTER> You are quite right: 21.Bxg7? Bf5! is strong indeed. Thanks.|
|Feb-18-12|| ||bischopper: take out the defence it is enough the game for to win...|
|Feb-18-12|| ||sevenseaman: < Memethecat: <7cman> Excellent analysis today, I didn't think anyone would be able to nail it so completely, well done.>|
It was a really great puzzle today and <Sokolov> was flawless. K's corner was well-defended. One felt as though walking into enemy territory with many hostile guns trained.
Limiting the hostile fire to the minimum looked crucial.
|Feb-18-12|| ||The Rocket: <"You are quite right: 21.Bxg7? Bf5! is strong indeed. Thanks.">|
No just take on f5 and it's + 8 after rd3.. Bxg7 line wins faster in all lines than the game continuation.
|Feb-18-12|| ||dzechiel: White to move (20?). Material even. "Very Difficult."|
I had chess buddies Seth and Brandon over last night and we looked at this position together. We were able to quickly come up with...
20 Bxg6 hxg6 21 Qxg6 Bf8
But totally missed
I'm not sure if this was a "Too many cooks" situation or not. In many of the positions we DID look at, we noticed that black's bishop on c8 was covering h3 and preventing our rook from attacking on the h-file, but we never put that together with this killer pawn push.
Hoping we do better on Sunday's position.
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·