< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 20 OF 22 ·
|Apr-24-12|| ||Aljechintje: Watch out, Levon tends to come back and win right after a loss. But this is a match, so we'll see.|
|Apr-24-12|| ||Chess for life: Kramnik is a beast, obvi.|
|Apr-24-12|| ||dumbgai: Score one for the Four Knights! Gotta love seeing these old school openings succeed at the highest level.|
|Apr-24-12|| ||messachess: That's superb vision for Kramnik to see that the doubled passed pawns are so powerful that he can play 30.Re8+!! In another way, white was in a bind and it was a forced move. He sure made it look easy after that.|
|Apr-24-12|| ||Domdaniel: <Jason Frost> That's very true about Vaganian. Even when he was ranked #3 in the world, his White openings were horrible ... a mishmash of Reti/English and King's Indian Attack, often giving the impression of being made up as he went along. Which he was very good at doing, but still.|
In contrast, he played the French brilliantly with Black, and the fashion has continued among Armenian players.
As for Aronian, I don't think preparation was ever his strongest point, but his recent work rate is showing results. But you only have to look at the exquisite *finishes* of many of his wins to see how good his chess vision is.
Even though it went wrong today, I applaud the spirit behind the Queen sac.
|Apr-24-12|| ||lost in space: looking at this game with the help of computers and with the knowledge of the result I was asking me, were to play differently as Black to avoid a loss.|
I am checking at this moment 11...Nce7 (instead of 11...Nxc3) 12. Bc4 Nxc3
This seems to be better than 12...c6 13. Rhe1 Ba5 (13...f6 14. Bf4 Kh8 15. Nbd5 (also 15. Bxd5 Nxd5 16. Nxd5 Rxe1 17. Rxe1 cxd5 18. Nb5 Bf5 is fine for white) 15...g5 16. Nxd5 is more than fine for white)
13. Qxc3 Nd5 14. Qd2 f6 15. Rhe1 c6 16. Rxe8 Qxe8 17. Bf4 Kh8 18. Re1 Qg8 19. Bxd5 cxd5 and this position is somehow defendable for Black, but not really good.
click for larger view
|Apr-24-12|| ||twinlark: <Domdaniel>
<Even though it went wrong today, I applaud the spirit behind the Queen sac.>
The way the game was played shows that it really is a training match, and that it really is a friendly match...I'm not sure Aronian would be so cavalier in a match with serious stakes, like say the World Championship.
It's great and entertaining event, so let's hope Vlad and Lev keep it up. Each game has been a beauty.
|Apr-24-12|| ||AVRO38: This might sound narcissistic, but I think Kramnik was a bit stung by my criticism of 1.Nf3 :-)|
In a short match, nothing good can come from 1.Nf3, unless you're leading!
I think Kramnik realized that with the world watching, this is not the time to get cute with 1.Nf3 but the time to show you can still play active chess and still out-calculate the opposition.
|Apr-24-12|| ||Jason Frost: <AVRO38> By playing a more drawish 2 nights line? |
Honestly, I think people are speculating too much on the meaning of opening choices here. Maybe Kramnik wanted to test the openings in top competition, maybe he felt Aronian would try to press for an advantage in a drawish opening, maybe he wanted to pull a Radjabov and play for a win with black, maybe he did just want an extra rest day or two, etc.... It really all seems baseless, without asking Kramnik himself.
|Apr-24-12|| ||AVRO38: <Jason Frost><By playing a more drawish 2 nights line?>|
If there's one word that cannot be used to describe this game, it's drawish!
|Apr-24-12|| ||Jason Frost: <AVRO38> Certainly, but I think that has more to do with Aronian's 5...Bc5 than Kramnik's opening choice. In 3 previous games in the position Aronian played the much more common 5...Bb4, which is considered extremely drawish, though maybe Kramnik had something sharp planned there.|
|Apr-24-12|| ||Reisswolf: After 11. g5, Aronian must surely have calculated the position arising from 19..xa8 quite accurately. But isn't he already down by the equivalent of two pawns? Why did he choose the line? What compensation did he have in mind?|
|Apr-24-12|| ||piltdown man: A breathtaking game from Kramnik. Just beautiful.|
|Apr-24-12|| ||AVRO38: <Jason Frost><Certainly, but I think that has more to do with Aronian's 5...Bc5 than Kramnik's opening choice.>|
I disagree. Kramnik played the Three Knights, it was Aronian who chose the Four Knights. You cannot accuse Kramnik of playing a "drawish" Four Knights when this was Aronian's choice.
|Apr-24-12|| ||drleper: After game 2 Lev said he played 1.e4 for a surprise, to which Vlad jokingly replied "I also can play 1.e4", which he did the very next game :D|
|Apr-24-12|| ||vinidivici: is the queen sacrifice sound here? I mean with material value resulting -2 for Aronian.... i think thats a bit weak...??|
|Apr-24-12|| ||Poisonpawns: Kramnik is using old analysis from when he was second to Kasparov. This is why Kasparov did not play Scotch in their match. Kramnik knows this thing inside and out.|
|Apr-24-12|| ||DrGridlock: Komodo finds the “queen sac” continuation – … Nxc3 – as black’s best option at move 11.|
Yes, it is sound.
click for larger view
Analysis by Komodo32 3 32bit:
1. ˛ (0.40): 11...Nxc3 12.Bxd8 Nxd1 13.Bxc7 Bxc7 14.Nxc6 Ne3 15.Bb5 Bf5 16.Nd4 Bf4 17.Bxe8 Nxg2 18.Bxf7+ Kxf7 19.Qxf4 Nxf4 20.Nxf5 Rd8 21.Re1 Ne6 22.h4 b6 23.b3 Rd5 24.Ng3 Nd4 25.Rd1 Ke6 26.Rd3 g6 27.c4
2. ˛ (0.43): 11...f6 12.Bc4 Nxd4 13.Nxd5 Be6 14.Bxf6 gxf6 15.Nxb6 axb6 16.Qxd4 Qxd4 17.Bxe6+ Rxe6 18.Rxd4 Rxa2 19.Kb1 Ra5 20.Rd7 Rc5 21.g4 Re2 22.c3 Rb5 23.b4 c5 24.Rhd1 cxb4 25.c4 Rc5 26.Rxb7 Rc8 27.Rd4
3. ˛ (0.43): 11...Nde7 12.Nxc6 Qxd2+ 13.Bxd2 Nxc6 14.Nd5 Bf5 15.Bc3 h5 16.a3 a6 17.Bc4 Rac8 18.Nxb6 cxb6 19.Rhe1 b5 20.Bd5 Rxe1 21.Rxe1 Rd8 22.Ba2 Rc8 23.h4 Rd8 24.g3 Kf8 25.Bd2 Rd7 26.Rd1 Rd6 27.Re1
4. ˛ (0.43): 11...Nf6 12.Nxc6 Qxd2+ 13.Bxd2 bxc6 14.Bd3 Be6 15.Rhe1 Bf2 16.Re2 Bd4 17.Kb1 h6 18.Ne4 Rad8 19.Nxf6+ Bxf6 20.Rde1 Re7 21.f4 c5 22.f5 c4 23.fxe6 cxd3 24.cxd3 Rxe6 25.Rxe6 fxe6 26.Rxe6 Rxd3 27.Kc2
|Apr-24-12|| ||positionalgenius: Beautiful game. As these are two of my favorite players, its a shame one of them is not playing for the world title this year. its ironic that people still underestimate Kramnik after all of his accomplishments.|
|Apr-24-12|| ||Interbond: Aronian most often plays openings much better than Carlsen, but Carlsen is and has been nr 1 for a long time. That tells me something .......|
|Apr-24-12|| ||twinlark: |
I watched Werner Hug and Yannick Pelletier commenting on the game as it unfolded, with the help of Houdini, and with my own engine running back and forth across variations, and what impresses me about the whole queen sac variation is its sheer <complexity>, and the wonder of Kramnik navigating so deftly through the shoals that would have broken a lesser player, and with scarcely a misstep.
It was Aronian who eventually had to take drastic action to avoid the main variation shown in Dr Gridlock's impressive analysis by Komodo, which probably underestimates the psychological if not objective difficulty of defending the sort of endgame where Black is a pawn down with no prospects of winning.
Aronian's response of taking the Knight on c6 (<15...bxc6>) seems to be the losing move, but both commentators thought he did this knowing full well that <he had no prospect of winning in an unfavourable endgame> that followed from <15...Bf5>, the types of which Kramnik excels in. At least here he died by the sword rather than being gradually ground down.
Cheers to both these players. Great courage by Aronian, great fighting qualities by Kramnik.
|Apr-25-12|| ||kingscrusher: I have video annotated this game here:
|Apr-25-12|| ||DrGridlock: <kingcrusher>
An interesting, but limited, use of engine analysis of the queen sac.
"What was played, which was remarkable ... was actually Nxc3. It's not really on the engine radar ... fifth, Nxc3."
That's true, but only if you limit yourself to low-order searches for the engine. You are looking 15 or so moves ahead with Houdini. Looking 22 moves ahead with Komodo (see my analysis above), gives a very different evaluation of the queen sac Nxc3.
|Apr-25-12|| ||checkmateyourmove: from shipov on move 32 "The black pieces are holding onto each other like mountain climbers. If one slips the others will hang on"
How can you not love the passion this guy has for chess and his words!!!|
|Apr-25-12|| ||Jason Frost: <AVRO38: <Jason Frost><Certainly, but I think that has more to do with Aronian's 5...Bc5 than Kramnik's opening choice.>
I disagree. Kramnik played the Three Knights, it was Aronian who chose the Four Knights. You cannot accuse Kramnik of playing a "drawish" Four Knights when this was Aronian's choice.>|
Calling <1.e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3> the <three knights> is ridiculous, because it almost always becomes the four knights. So if you want to keep calling it the three knights fine, the <3 knights> is a drawish opening and 4. d4 is very drawish.
Though, again, perhaps Kramnik had something sharp in mind, if Aronian had gone for the much more common 5...Bb4, but as the game went, it was Aronian, not Kramnik, who took it into the tactical slugfest it became ... and which Kramnik played beautifully.
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