< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 16 OF 19 ·
|May-21-12|| ||ajile: <IMRKs: <twinlark> absolutely correct, i also followed the game today and its important to mention again that Gelfand+Nepo+Leko neither of them saw the trapadn 99.999999999999 % of the rest of us and the world didnt as well including Houdini on chessbomb which didnt mark Qf6 as blunder (red)>|
Well maybe Houdini ain't that great. I got this analysis in less than 5 minutes.
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Analysis by Rybka 2.3.2a mp 32-bit : 20 ply
1. ± (1.02): 1.gxh5 Qxf3+ 2.Kc2 Qxh1 3.Qf2 Nc6 4.dxc6 Qxc6 5.Bg2 Qd7 6.Nd5 Qa4+ 7.b3 Qxa2+ 8.Rb2
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2. ˛ (0.54): 1.Kc2 Nf4 2.Ne4 Qe5 3.Bd3 Nxd3 4.Qxd3 Nd7 5.Rbe1 Qf4 6.Qd2 Qxf3 7.Nxd6 Rxe1
|May-21-12|| ||capanegra: <twinlark> Yes, I second <technical draw>'s congrats for having anticipated the continuation even before 12…Re8+ (see page 7), something that not even Natalia nor ray keene did (not to mention Leko and Nepo, jeje). Hats off to you, my friend.|
|May-21-12|| ||Judah: I don't know what the red line is for chessbomb's Houdini to mark something a "blunder", but I can say that on the official website, Houdini's analysis of Qf6 was roughly the same as Rybka's that you give, <ajile>.|
|May-21-12|| ||zakkzheng: I feel really bad for Gelfand for that big a agitating blunder on move 14 for Gelfand. Anand had a happy win for a round|
|May-21-12|| ||Eyal: <its important to mention again that Gelfand+Nepo+Leko neither of them saw the trapadn 99.999999999999 % of the rest of us and the world didnt as well including Houdini on chessbomb which didnt mark Qf6 as blunder (red)>|
Of course Houdini sees the basic blunder, with the 17.Qf2 idea - otherwise not so many people would have "known" so quickly that Gelfand has made a mistake... if there's anything computers are super-strong at, it's seeing such forcing tactical sequences. The reason 14...Qf6 wasn't painted bright red on chessbomb is that Houdini <also> sees 17...Nc6 which saves the queen after 18.dxc6 (otherwise ...Nd4+) Qxc6., so the move gets "only" something like +1.20-1.40 eval. As was already noted several times, this position is also clearly losing for Black, even though Gelfand might have played on for a while longer. But his shock and disappointment were apparently too great - either to even see it or to care. It's not like he missed any serious chances of fighting for the draw.
|May-21-12|| ||RookFile: Some people prefer to fight.|
|May-21-12|| ||WiseWizard: What are the experts saying about Anand's knight developement?|
|May-21-12|| ||wordfunph: "I just didn't see the last move 17.Qf2"
- Boris Gelfand
|May-22-12|| ||Eyal: <What are the experts saying about Anand's knight developement?>|
<6... O-O By getting this position from the 3.f3 move order, the knight is still on b1, which gives an extra option for White. He can put his e2 knight to c3, and after Bg5 or Be3 the other knight goes to d2, which could be preferable to the setup with Ng3 and Nc3 [...] 7. Nec3 it is a very clever choice from Anand, because this move deviates from the normal Saemisch with Ng3, so Gelfand cannot use anymore his huge experience in the opening.> (Balogh on chessdom)
|May-22-12|| ||PYCJacobson: I think a lot of people here have got the butt end of the game. Around move 10-12, Ray Keene and others were praising black's position, Keene even using 'genius' to describe Gelfand's innovative play up until that point. Gelfand could have used that position to get a draw (as he did in previous games with black) - but he probably thought that from a match perspective this was an opportunity to push - primarily because Anand was clearly out of sorts - a case of dealing the final blow while your opponent is down. Unfortunately he fell into a trap - and to a certain extent Anand was lucky. If Gelfand had continued to play strategically around move 10-12 then it would have been totally different. |
Kramnik also fell into a trap with Anand in their championship match. It happens. In this match so far, Gelfand has taken all the initiative - he has determined the course of all the games - so all I can say is "go Boris go, and prove your detractors wrong!"
|May-22-12|| ||Eyal: Btw, if instead of 14...Qf6?? Black simply retreats with the knight to f6 or g7, then after 15.h4 it looks like White has a pleasant advantage, even though there's no immediate or forced win, of course. The line <12...Qh4+ 13.Kd1 Bxb1 14.Rxb1 Ng7>, which was mentioned as an improvement where Black isn't in bad shape, seems better for at least two reasons - the queen blocks the advance of White's h-pawn, and the rook is better placed on f8 than e8 to support a f5 break at the right moment.|
|May-22-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: WC Anand, man! 1 word to describe him and his talent: PHENOMENAL!|
Although, I respect GM Gelfand, I am rooting for WC Anand to keep his title!
|May-22-12|| ||twinlark: <Eyal>
I'm surprised that almost no one else considered the <12...Qh4+> option either during the game or in the endless post mortems. It's not like it was hard to see or there was anything wrong with it.
|May-22-12|| ||Troller: Houdini on chessbomb has a limited depth for non-paying viewers. This engine did not "see" the trap before Gelfand actually played ..Qf6 (after 14.Rxb1 it had ..Qf6 as second best option with +0.09 in the 15.Kc2 continuation). On the official site, no such restrictions are put on the engine, and it will obviously find the line at some point, like all other decent engines.|
As for 17..Nc6, again on chessbomb Houdini is expecting 18.dxc6 Qxc6 19.Bd3 instead of the stronger 19.Bg2 which is easily winning. Even then, chessbomb-Houdini's final position in the 19.Bd3 line is:
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Looks pretty resignable.
|May-22-12|| ||weepingwarrior: Yep, This is a new record for the shortest decisive chess game played in a world championship match. 19 was the record. Congrats to Anand!|
|May-22-12|| ||AVRO38: You do realize that we just witnessed the biggest smackdown in world championship history. |
Anand basically told Gelfand not to even think about trying to win this match.
Coming right back from a defeat in the previous game to crush your opponent like a ton of bricks is the mark of a true champion.
|May-22-12|| ||Eyal: <twinlark> Well, I did see it mentioned as a better option for Black in commentaries during the game - by Balogh on chessdom, by Shipov (http://www.chessintranslation.com/l...), and also Pogonina said at a certain point that Qh4 seemed more attractive to her after Re8+ was played (Anand vs Gelfand, 2012).|
Btw, with regard to the players themselves - especially Gelfand - it's worth remembering that the game deviated from theory at a very early stage, and not just by slight nuances: apparently they created what amounts to a new type of position. First it seemed like a Saemisch in transposition, then Anand took advantage of the move order to make the unusual (though not unprecedented) maneuver of the g1 knight to c3 rather than g3, then Gelfand surprised with Nh5 instead of the "normal" e6, and then he surprised again with the exchanges on f6. Shipov wrote after Geland's 9th move that he's never seen anything like that in all his life, and he's seen a lot... And when you play without the safety net of well-known opening schemes, the chances of making mistakes - and very big ones at that - are much higher. That's why the general level of Fischer Random games is so much lower than that of normal chess.
|May-22-12|| ||RookFile: <You do realize that we just witnessed the biggest smackdown in world championship history.
Anand basically told Gelfand not to even think about trying to win this match.|
Coming right back from a defeat in the previous game to crush your opponent like a ton of bricks is the mark of a true champion. >
Well, they still have to play the games, first. It's not obvious to me that Gelfand is in a bad position.
|May-22-12|| ||twinlark: |
This business about this being the shortest played decisive game (whew!) in World Championship history is overrated IMO. Gelfand, to his credit, very sportingly and courteously resigned when he saw he was essentially done rather than drawing it out to make the game length more respectable.
|May-22-12|| ||PYCJacobson: This game reminds me of the other time in WC that someone fell into tactical trap against Anand.
Kramnik vs Anand, 2008. |
In game 7 Gelfand outplayed Anand and in game 8 he outplayed himself. Gelfand should go back to plan A - use his preparation, play safe and strategically and slowly apply the pressure until Anand falters because I still believe Anand is not on top of his game.
|May-22-12|| ||Ulhumbrus: The move 17 Qf2!! is not to be understood on its own. It is the first of a pair of moves. It is the first move which encircles the black queen while the second move traps the black queen. A pair of moves which accomplishes some purpose is much more difficult to find or foresee than any single move which accomplishes an aim. I suggest that this was the reason why Gelfand overlooked that his queen would get trapped after 16...Qh1 although he had to be unlucky to overlook it.|
<Luzhin> one of the best analysts here, has pointed out the first of a pair of moves which enables the black queen to escape, namely, 17...Nc6!! although this does not save the game for Black. Once again, pairs of moves which achieve an aim are much more difficult to find or to foresee than single moves which accomplish an aim.
If Gelfand overlooked the resource of 17 Qf2, he is in good company. Peter Leko appears to have overlooked it, and Peter Leko is one of the strongest players in the world. He came close to winning the world championship from Kramnik in 2004.
It is because this resource makes use of a pair of moves that the strongest players in the world could overlook it.
|May-22-12|| ||PhilFeeley: It looked like a Benoni at first (3...c5), then a King's Indian, but CG.com calls it a neo-Grunfeld. So which is it?|
|May-22-12|| ||madlydeeply: i want to believe that 13...Bxb1 was the mistake and there was at least sacrificial chances v. white with a piece swarm. ...Bxb1 solved white's development problems.|
|May-22-12|| ||serenpidity.ejd: <UNBELIEVABLE!!!> A full analysis by chess writers should be written to enlighten the chess public.
At the onset, Gelfand just gave away a game on purpose. Was he drugged or drunk? Mafia? Perhaps a deeper investigation is in order?|
|May-22-12|| ||Chessical: Gelfand could have played on after <17. Qf2> with <17...Nc6> but it would have been to lengthen the game rather than in any hope of saving it. For instance:|
<18. dxc6> Qxc6 19. Bg2 Qd7 20. Nd5 Qa4+ 21. b3 Qxa2+ 22. Rb2 Qa1 23. Nf6+ Kh8 24. Nxe8 Rxe8
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