< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Sep-12-13|| ||Stormbringer: I also liked Kb6, but I was under the misapprehension there was nowhere on the seventh rank for the rook to hide. Oops.|
|Sep-12-13|| ||morfishine: <Once> I completely overlooked that! |
|Sep-12-13|| ||nuwanda: i have to admit that i didnt see 51.Kd6 Rd7+. but after it was mentioned by other users, i remembered its sometimes a neccesary resource when defending with rook against rook and pawn.
hasnt it recently appeared in the Kamsky-Ramirez play-offs?|
|Sep-12-13|| ||1.e4effort: I liked 51.Kb6 and 51.e6 almost equally, but I was leaning more towards the former. Seems like either way white has the upper hand because of the two foot soldiers knocking on the door of glory - black can't deny promotion to both of them; one of them will Queen.|
|Sep-12-13|| ||Dr. Funkenstein: wow, went with Kd6 because I thought black didn't have any useful moves here but missed Rd7+!|
|Sep-12-13|| ||LIFE Master AJ: <<Once> It looks like the game continuation isn't the only way to play this one. <<<>>> >>|
Agreed, I reached this conclusion in less than two minutes ... and I did not need an engine to do so.
|Sep-12-13|| ||TheaN: <SimonWebbsTiger>
Pretty amazing puzzle that, pretty much the reason I so much like these stalemate combinations.
Fwiw, that puzzle continues even more stalematesque (if that's not a word I just made it) with 4.Ke6/Bg4 Rb7! with 5....Rxb6=, as 5.cxb7 is stalemate and white can't defend b6, or 5.c7+ Rxc7=. If white plays 4.b7 black can't draw instantly, but merely retreating the rook shows that white has no more initiative on the long diagonal by blocking it himself. After 4....Rd2 with 5....Kc7 and black draws eventually.
|Sep-12-13|| ||paramount: wow good puzzle. Its maybe for tomorrow.
The problem with
51.Kd6? is 51...Rd7+ either with dead draw or repeating move
51.e6 fxe6 52.Bxe6? the prophylactic 52...Kc7 53.f7 Ra8 is draw...black rook guarding the last rank and black king blocking the c-pawn.
So the answer is
51.e6 fxe6 52 Kd6!!
Now 52...Rd7+ doesnt work anymore because after 53.cxd7, black would have a pawn to move
meanwhile 52...e5 doesnt work also, 53.f7 Rxf7 54.Bxf7 e4 55.c7+ Kc8 56.Kc6 then 57.Be6+#
|Sep-12-13|| ||Prosperus: Couldn't Black save a draw with 55. ... Rc3 ?|
|Sep-12-13|| ||cyclon: In my view 51. e6 fxe6 ( 51. -Ke8 52. e7 wins, or 51. -Rc7/-Ra3/-Ra8 52. exf7 goodbye - yet 51. -Ra5+ 52. Kd6 curfew ) 52. Kd6 is actually a zugzwang for Black, f.e.; -52. -Ke8 53. Bxe6 wins, or -52. -Rc7/f7/h7 53. Bxe3 over. Yet; -52. -Ra6 53. f7 Rxc6+ 54. Kxc6 Ke7 55. Bxe6 over, or -52. -Ra5/a3 53. c7+ wins and on -52. -Ra8 53. f7 Black can safely 'rest in peace'.|
|Sep-12-13|| ||kevin86: <prosperus> if 55...♖c3 56 ♗c6+ and queens the pawn.|
After 55...♖xd5 56 ♔xd5 ♔d7 57 f7 and black's king has the same dilemma as a dog chasing two squirrels.
|Sep-12-13|| ||Marmot PFL: Kd6 and e6 wins, except for the stalemate defense (which I missed), but it doesn't matter really as that only delays the inevitable once white changes the move order. As a problem therefore it is somewhat flawed since white gets a 2nd chance to win.|
|Sep-12-13|| ||Jimfromprovidence: This is an extremely challenging puzzle.
An example are these two lines emanating from 51 Kxb4.
51 Kxb4 Kc7 52 Kb5? Ra1 53 Bxf7 Re1 54 e6 Re5+ 55 Kc4 Kxc6 is a tablebase draw because black ends up with the opposition when the position liquidates to a king+ pawn vs. king ending.
click for larger view
But 51 Kxb4 Kc7 52 Bxf7 Kxc6 53 Be6 is a tablebase win as white can build a barrier to protect his pawns, allowing his king to circle back to the king side to provide support for a pawn promotion.
click for larger view
|Sep-12-13|| ||hcgflynn: I don't get 26. - Nb8, that seems to me the losing move. How about 26. - Rfb8 with the plan of Rb6?|
Giving up the a-pawn instead of the c-pawn seems a better idea too.
|Sep-12-13|| ||GoldenKnight: My first choice was 51.Bxf7. It looks winning to me, but I haven't time to analyze it (and my engine is at home anyway). Can someone help me with this? Thanks!|
|Sep-12-13|| ||Marmot PFL: I didn't look at 51 Bxf7 as white has a fairly easy win with 51 e6, but 51 Bxf7 Rxf7 52 Kxb4 Kc7 is just a draw.|
|Sep-12-13|| ||Clodhopper: Either e6 or Kb6 are straightforward wins, but the old adage says that in the end game you gotta push pawns when you can, so I would choose e6.|
|Sep-12-13|| ||patcheck: 51. Kb6
Rc7 52. Bc4
. b3 53. Bxb3 and white wins easily with its bishop and two connected past pawns and other pawn on the sixth rank
Rc8 53. Bxf7 Rb8+ 54. Kc5 b3 (I dont see a better move for black here) 55. Kd6! (threatening 56. c7+ Kc8 57. Kc6 Rb6 only way to avoid mate- 58. Kxb6 and white is winning and can avoid the black b pawn promotion) Rc6 (the best defense I think) 56. e6 (threatening 57. e7+ Kc8 58. e8=Q#) and I dont see any good defense for black : 57.
b2 58. e7+ Kc8 59. R8=Q# / 57.
Kc8 58. e7 and black is totally lost
Kc8 (the best defense I think) 53. e6 fxe6 (what else ?) 59. Bxe6+ Kd8 60. f7 (for instance) Rxf7 61. Bxb7 b3 62. c7+ Kc8 63. Be6#
Ra8 52. Bxf7
Rb8+ leads to the same lines than A2
b3 53. c7+ Kd7 (53.
Kc8 54. Be6#) 54. Bxb3 and black is lost
C) Other rook moves, for instance 52.
Ra4 53. Bxf7 Rc4 [forced to avoid 54. c7+ with two options : 54.
Kc8 55. Be6# / 54.
Kd7 55. Be6+ Kxe6 56. c8=Q] 54. e6 and black is lost, for instance : 54.
b3 55. e7+ Kc8 56. e8=Q#)
In conclusion, 53. Kb6 must win although we didnt check all the possible variations.
|Sep-12-13|| ||patcheck: ok. I got surprised by the way it was played in the game. I think the solution I proposed works but maybe someone has seen a defense after 51. Rb6.|
|Sep-12-13|| ||BOSTER: This is pos. after 42.h3 with black to play.
click for larger view
According to Tarrasch' recipe to keep the rook behind the pass pawn I'd try 42...Ra3.
White need at least two moves to take the control of c8 square.
|Sep-12-13|| ||Marmot PFL: <White need at least two moves to take the control of c8 square.>|
One of them is check though...43 c7+ Kc8 44 Bc4 threatening e6 (44...Rc3 45 Ba6+)
|Sep-12-13|| ||agb2002: White has a bishop and a pawn for a rook.
The first idea that comes to mind is the prosaic 51.Kxb4:
A) 51... Rc7 52.Kc5
A.1) 52... Ke8 53.Kb6 Kd8 (53... Rc8 54.Kb7 Kd8 (54... Rd8 55.c7) 55.Bxf7) 54.e6 (54.Bxf7 Rxf7 55.e6 Rxf6 56.Rb7 Ke7 57.c7 Rf8 =) 54... fxe6 55.Bxe6 Rh7 56.f7 Ke7 57.c7 Rh8 58.Bb3 (58.c8=Q Rxc8 59.Bxc8 Kxf7 =; 58.Kb7 Kxe6 =) 58... Kd7 59.Kb7 Rf8 60.Ba4+ Ke7 61.Be8 wins.
A.2) 52... Ra7 53.Kb6 Rc7 54.e6 transposes to A.1.
B) 51... Kc7
B.1) 52.Bxf7 Kxc6 53.e6 (53.Be8+ Kd5) 53... Kd6 54.Bg8 (54.e7 Rxe7) 54... Rc7 55.f7 Ke7 =.
B.2) 52.Kb5 Ra3 (52... Kd8 53.Kb6 transposes to A.1) 53.Bxf7 Re3 54.e6 Re5+ 55.Kc4 Kxc6 56.e7 Kd7 57.e8=Q+ Rxe8 58.Bxe8+ Kxe8 =.
B.3) 52.Kc5 Ra5+ 53.Kd4 Kxc6 54.Bxf7 is probably winning.
The aggressive 51.Kb6 Rc7 52.Bxf7 loses as described in A.1. However, White can play better. So 51.Kb6:
A) 51... Rc7 52.e6 fxe6 53.Bxe6 Rh7 54.f7 Ke7 (54... Rh8 55.c7+ Ke7 transposes to the main line) 55.c7 Rh8 56.Bb3 wins as in A.1 of 51.Kxb4.
B) 51... Ra3 52.Kb7 wins.
Finally, 51.e6 fxe6 52.Bxe6 is similar to A of 51.Kb6.
I think I'd play 51.Kb6 because it looks simpler.
|Sep-12-13|| ||Penguincw: 51.e6 was one of the solutions I was thinking of but 52.Kd6 was a shocker to me.|
|Sep-12-13|| ||Patriot: <<agb2002> <Finally, 51.e6 fxe6 52.Bxe6 is similar to A of 51.Kb6.>>|
I thought it was winning (and it's the line I chose) but 52...Kc7 will draw. 52.Kd6 and 52.Kb6 are the only winning moves in that line.
|Sep-13-13|| ||agb2002: <Patriot: <<agb2002> <Finally, 51.e6 fxe6 52.Bxe6 is similar to A of 51.Kb6.>>|
I thought it was winning (and it's the line I chose) but 52...Kc7 will draw. 52.Kd6 and 52.Kb6 are the only winning moves in that line.>
I think you're right. Thank you!
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