chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing


register now - it's free!
Wang Hao vs Magnus Carlsen
Biel Chess Festival (2012)  ·  Queen's Indian Defense: Fianchetto. Nimzowitsch Variation Quiet Line (E15)  ·  0-1
To move:
Last move:

Click Here to play Guess-the-Move
Given 4 times; par: 116 [what's this?]

explore this opening
find similar games 6 more Wang Hao/Carlsen games
PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: To flip the board (so black is on the bottom) either press F or click on the e7 square.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with the default chess viewer, please see the Pgn4web Quickstart Guide.

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 11 OF 11 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jul-30-12  Ulhumbrus: <<55...Nd6 attacks the b5 pawn and keeps White's King back. On 55..Nd6 56 b6 Kd8 57 Nc4 Nxc4 58 Kxc5 Kc8 White's King can do nothing and Black's King heads for the b6 pawn> Yes, but instead of 57.Nc4? White can counter-attack Black's a-pawn with his king: 57.Kc3 Kc8 58.Kb2 Kb7 59.Ka3.> That leaves black a pawn ahead. Carlsen finds however a better way. He does not try to prevent Kc4 and he ends up winning the b pawn for nothing and the game
Jul-30-12  Ulhumbrus: If Wang Hao overlooked the resource of 46...Nb6! when he made the choice of 43 Qb2 followed by 44 Qb5, this suggests that in order to avoid going too far trying to win, he had to foresee all such resources.
Jul-30-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: I don't understand why Wang forced the trade of his heavy pieces at moves 42--45. I'm poor at endgames, but I know a few rules of thumb, like: When you're ahead, trade pieces; when you're behind, trade pawns.
Jul-30-12  andrewjsacks: I would like to see some solid analysis at White's 41st move. Is the Black a pawn really immune to either capture?
Jul-30-12  latvalatvian: Carlsen is probably better than me
Jul-30-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: <latvalatvian> http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/at...
Jul-30-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <andrewjsacks: I would like to see some solid analysis at White's 41st move. Is the Black a pawn really immune to either capture?>

Looking at this, I don't see any problem with either 41.Qxa5 Qxa5 42.Nxa5 Ra8 43.Nb7 or 41.Nxa5 Ra8 for White, but neither do I see any advantage. The variation which goes into an ending in particular looks level and should turn into a draw fairly quickly, but the main problem from Wang's point of view may have been that this was the first move after the time check, and that he had been putting the heat on his opponent throughout the middlegame. Making the psychological adjustment to the change in circumstances can be very difficult indeed.

Jul-30-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: <[...] White's 41st move. Is the Black a pawn really immune to either capture?>

It's "immune" in the sense that capturing it leads to the loss of White's a-pawn and thus to a clear draw, after the liquidation of all the Q-side pawns: 41.Qxa5 Qxa5 42.Nxa5 Ra8 43.Nb7, or 41.Nxa5 Ra8. The point is that at this stage of the game Hao was still playing for a win, not for a draw.

The same question is actually more interesting two moves later: 43.Nxa5 doesn't bring White anything subtantial after 43...Qa6!; 43.Qxa5? actually loses to 43...Qb3 44.Ndb2 Ne5!! or 44.Ncb2 Qc2+ followed by 45...c4 (but not 44...c4 immediately because of 45.Qb4!).

The point where the tables turned was move 46 - Hao clearly missed 46...Nb6! (47.Nxb6 a3 and the pawn queens). White could easily force a practically dead drawn position at this point by 46.b6 [instead of Ndb2?] a3 47.Nxa3 Nxb6 48.Nxc5.

Jul-30-12  andrewjsacks: <perfidious> I consult no chess engine, and my masterly skills may have waned somewhat over the past few years of tournament inactivity, but I suspect that the pawn was not immune to both possible captures, and that it was at this point that Wang began to "lose it." I see no reason for him to lose this game at move 40.
Jul-30-12  andrewjsacks: <Eyal> I agree. The 46...Nb6 "shot" must have been a very unpleasant surprise for Hao.
Jul-30-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: <<<55...Nd6 attacks the b5 pawn and keeps White's King back. On 55..Nd6 56 b6 Kd8 57 Nc4 Nxc4 58 Kxc5 Kc8 White's King can do nothing and Black's King heads for the b6 pawn> Yes, but instead of 57.Nc4? White can counter-attack Black's a-pawn with his king: 57.Kc3 Kc8 58.Kb2 Kb7 59.Ka3.> That leaves black a pawn ahead. Carlsen finds however a better way. He does not try to prevent Kc4 and he ends up winning the b pawn for nothing and the game>

Actually, there's a way for White to remain only one pawn down even after <55...Kd8!>: 56.b6 Kc8 57.Nc4 Kb7 58.Kc2 Kc6 (preparing Nd6) 59.Nb2 Kxb6 60.Nxa4+ Kb5:


click for larger view

But this, with the black king invading and a backward white king, is clearly better for Black than the position at the end of the line starting with 55..Nd6(?) 56.b6 Kd8 57.Kc2 (after the a & b pawns have gone off the board):


click for larger view

Btw, it's instructive to compare the line 55..Nd6 56.b6 Kd8 57.Kc2 Kc8 58.Kb2 Kb7 59.Ka3 Kxb6 60.Kxa4 with 55...Kd8 56.Kc2 Kc7 57.Kb2 Kb6 58.Ka3 Kxb5. In both the black kings makes the same number of moves, but in the second he reaches a better square, in time to defend its own pawn.

Jul-30-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Bobby Fiske: Who does Magnus Carlsen think he is? -Does he really think he can play black against a super-GM, without any particular opening preparations, and expect to outplay his opponent in the end game and win just like that?
Jul-30-12  Klopstix: What an endgame... I almost feel sorry for Hao, almost. Kd8 was an amazing move by MC. And who cares about who is world champion? With the current system it's a deflated title, and everyone knows who the real Champ is.
Jul-30-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Bobby Fiske: Interesting post game analyzes by Magnus on YouTube: "Not a great game"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4wT...

Jul-30-12  kappertjes: Carlsen was almost apologetic about the win. He called it 'lucky' and when the (annoying!) interviewer said it was a great game he simply said "not a great game...". I think he felt that he was lucky to have Hao miss the 44. ...Nb6 shot and that the game should have been a draw. Just shows the level at which these GMs operate since I would never consider that 'obvious'.

Link to interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=P...

Jul-30-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  TheFocus: An hour after playing Chinese Checkers, I feel hungry again.
Jul-30-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  twinlark: <Who does Magnus Carlsen think he is? -Does he really think he can play black against a super-GM, without any particular opening preparations, and expect to outplay his opponent in the end game and win just like that?>

Amen to that brother. The Great One Rules.

Jul-30-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Bobby Fiske:

Rope-a-dope
If this game ever makes it to a Sunday puzzle (“Black to move after 46. Ndb2”) it could be coined <Rope-a-dope>, the way Magnus was laying low until Wang tired out and lost his accuracy.

Jul-30-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: <Carlsen was almost apologetic about the win. He called it 'lucky' and when the (annoying!) interviewer said it was a great game he simply said "not a great game...". I think he felt that he was lucky to have Hao miss the 44. ...Nb6 shot and that the game should have been a draw.>

Well, starting from about 20...Nd6 (which Carlsen criticizes, saying he mistakenly thought it could be followed by b5), and certainly from Hao's positional pawn sac (which Carlsen praises), he felt that he misplayed the position and was fighting to draw up to move 46 (where he thinks he should indeed be able to draw after 46.b6 a3 47.Nc1 Kf8 48.b7 Ke7 49.Nxa3 Kd6! [not 49...Kd8 50.Nb5!; from d6 the king can go to c6]). So even though he played the final phase after Hao's blunder very well, it's natural that he doesn't view the game as a <whole> as "great". Though one could say that the earlier phase also shows some good defensive play by Carlsen after the initial mistake(s).

Jul-30-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: < Eyal: ...And Carlsen's 13...Nc5 is indeed a novelty in relation to Dorfman vs Tkachiev simply by virtue of making a move.>

Then again, Dorfman doesn't exert himself overmuch in many games nowadays. If you want to call them games. Last year's French championship was an object example which you may remember, with the Andersson-like score of -1 =10, only four games lasting 20 moves or more.

Jul-30-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: <[Carlsen] thinks he should indeed be able to draw after 46.b6 a3 47.Nc1 Kf8 48.b7 Ke7 49.Nxa3 Kd6! (not 49...Kd8 50.Nb5!; from d6 the king can go to c6)>

White can try in this line the intermediate 49.e5, which takes away the d6 square from the black king, but in turn it helps Black to activate the knight - 49...Nd5 50.Nxa3 Kd8 51.Nb5 Nb4/e7 next coming to c6 and it definitely looks like a draw, e.g. 52.Nd6 Nc6 (52...f6 53.exf6 gxf6 54.Nf7+ & 55.Nxh6) 53.Nxf7+ Kc7.

Btw, there's a nice tactical idea if White plays 57.Kxe4 (instead of Nxg4): 57...a3 58.Nc6+ Kd7 59.Na5 and it looks like the knight is in time to reach b3 and stop the black pawn:


click for larger view

However, Black plays <59.c4!!> taking away the b3 square from the knight; and if the c-pawn is taken the a-pawn queens, of course. Another winning line goes 58.b6 a2 59.b7 Kc7 60.Nd7 Kxb7 61.Nxc5+ Kb6 62.Nb3 h5 and White won't be able to handle Black's passers on both wings.

Jul-31-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  tamar: In the post game interview, Magnus said 49...f5 was to gain squares for his Knight and King.

But I have been unable to break a fortress draw Houdini suggests by putting a knight on c3 and King on a3 for White

after 51 Kd2 Nf6 52 Kc2 Nfd5 53 Nxb6 Nxb6 54 Nd1 (key move-from c3 knight takes away d5 and guards b5) 54...Ke8 55 Nc3 Kd8 56 Kb2 Kc8 57 Ka3


click for larger view

The point is White does not even intend to take on a4, but plays Ka2 Ka3 and Black cannot do anything.

Jul-31-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Bobby Fiske: <<tamar:> The point is White does not even intend to take on a4, but plays Ka2 Ka3 and Black cannot do anything.> No possibility of invading through the kingside either? (-Pawns supported by king).
Jul-31-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  tamar: <Bobby Fiske> No I don't think so.

From the diagram position, White has the option of taking on a4 if the King strays from the vicinity.

For example continuing with the analysis if 57...Kb7 58 h3 is possible, as well as toggling between a3 and a2 with the King.

Since the King cannot go through the middle, it would have to go to the g file, after which the b pawn could become dangerous.

Aug-01-12  QueentakesKing: Mr. Wang why did you not eat the a5 pawn on move 43? It could have equalized the position. Next time do not overestimate your calculating ability specially against the number one player like Magnus.
Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 11)
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 11 OF 11 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, totally anonymous, and 100% free--plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, or duplicating posts.
  3. No personal attacks against other users.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform an administrator.


NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, you might try the Kibitzer's Café.
Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors.
Spot an error? Please submit a correction slip and help us eliminate database mistakes!
This game is type: CLASSICAL (Disagree? Please submit a correction slip.)

Featured in the Following Game Collections [what is this?]
E15 QID: Fianchetto [Black]
by chess.master
Masters blunder too!
by parmetd
--> N
from 38_NN by whiteshark
Hao's your Knight doin'?i
from iking's endgames favz by iking
"Not a great game" (Carlsen). But another great endgame...
from Magnus Carlsens Meisterwerke by tmh13
from bad to worse to lost
from 37_N endgames by whiteshark
...46.Nb6!
from Endgames by Portusboy


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | advertising | contact us
Copyright 2001-2014, Chessgames Services LLC
Web design & database development by 20/20 Technologies