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Boris Gelfand vs Levon Aronian
World Championship Candidates (2013), London ENG, rd 9, Mar-25
Queen's Gambit Declined: Harrwitz Attack. Two Knights Defense (D37)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 9 OF 9 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Mar-14-14  MostlyWatch: A game between two computers is a game between the two programmers. So a game of man v. machine is a game of man v. the computer programmer.

For the computer programmer a chess game is a problem searching the tree of possible moves. The search, rather than looking for the best move, could be to look for an avenue with a surprise down the line, or something else. And of course the main endeavor is finding a way to see farther over the horizon than the opponent. The computer programmer can approach the problem in a lot of different ways - the human element is simply moved to a different location, into the algorithm.

Mar-14-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: White is a ♙ up at move 33. After move 38 he is still a ♙ up. All this "combination" does is trade material.
Mar-14-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  morfishine: Who could forget this from Last Year's Candidates: Gelfand's e-pawn rolls blissfully to the 7th rank, Aronian scrambles to equalize, then Gelfand finishes him off with <33.f5>

*****

Mar-14-14  Cheapo by the Dozen: <al wazir>,

Yes, but without something clever, White would have to immediately give the pawn back, as he had both a piece and pawn en prise.

Mar-14-14  fishcat: 36.Qg5 is a bit better than trading off the queens.
Mar-14-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: I remembered seeing that move before, but didn't get it today. :|
Mar-14-14  PJs Studio: Fishcat, I thought Qg5 was better too. But when I saw Qe5 I figured I had miscalculated...

Cheapo - I agree with your initial assessment. Although, I haven't checked the lines against my computer.

Mar-14-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Patriot: Material is even. Black threatens 33...hxg4 and 33...Qxf4.

This proved very tough for me.

33.Bd7 Qxd7 34.Rxh5+ gxh5 35.Qe5+ Kg8 36.Qg5+ Kh7 37.Qf6 Kg8 38.Re5 Rd5 looks very suspicious to me. I think white will be struggling for a draw here.

33.f5 hxg4 34.Qh6+ Kg8 35.fxg6 Bxg6 36.Rg5 Kf7 37.Rf1+

There are lots of other possibilities here but I've already spent too much time on this to be practical.

Mar-14-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  gofer: We have a Q+2R+B, but it is <Pf4> that is the hero in this position.

<33 f5 ...>

33 ... Rxg4?
34 hxg4

33 ... hxg4
34 fxg6! ...

34 ... Qxg6
35 Qxd4+ Qg7
36 Qe3

34 ... Bxg6
37 Rg5 Kf7
38 Rxg6! Qxg6
39 Rf1+

33 ... gxf4
34 Rxf4

<33 ... Qf4>
<34 fxg6 ...>


click for larger view

Black's defenses are crumbling its not over yet, but holding on to Ph5 is looking to be impossible! Which will leave White with two connected passed pawns. I am guessing from here on.

34 ... Bd5?
35 Bd7

34 ... Bg8
35 Qxf4 Rxf4
36 Bd7

<34 ... Bxg6>
<35 Bxh4 ...>

35 ... Kg7?
36 Rg5 Qxd3+
37 Rxd3 Rd6
38 g4 Kh7
39 Bxg6+ Rxg6
40 Rxg6 Kxg6
41 h4

<35 ... Bxh4>
<36 Rxh4+ ...>

36 ... Kh8
37 Qe6+

<37 ... Kg7>
<38 Qe6 >

~~~

Well, I got everything except the best defense. So perhaps a "big" half a point today! But not much more...

Mar-14-14  Makavelli II: I found this puzzle very difficult. Surely one cannot be expected to guess from move 33 onwards as this is a 60 move game going on here :) I did try and I did fail :)
Mar-14-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: White is a pawn up.

Black threatens 33... hxg4 and ... Q(R)xf4.

The airy position of the black king invites to play 33.f5:

A) 33... hxg4 34.Qh6+ Kg8 35.fxg6

A.1) 35... Bxg6 36.Rg5 Kf7 37.Rxg6 Qxg6 (due to 38.Qh7# and 38.Rxd6) 38.Rf1+ wins the queen for a rook.

A.2) 35... Qxg6 36.Rg5 Rd6 37.hxg4 + - [Q+2P vs R+B].

A.3) 35... <any other bishop move> 36.Qh7#.

B) 33... gxf5 34.Rxf5

B.1) 34... hxg4 35.Rxf7 (threatens 36.Rf8+ Rxf8 37.exf8=Q+ Qxf8 38.Qxd4 and 36.Qg5)

B.1.a) 35... Rd5 36.Qc3+ Rd4 (36... Kg8 37.Qg7#) 37.Rf8+ Rxf8 38.exf8=Q+ Qxf8 39.Qxd4+ Kh7 40.Qxg4 + - [R+P].

B.1.b) 35... Kg8 36.Rf8+ Rxf8 37.Qg5+

B.1.b.i) 37...Kf7 38.Qf5+ Kg7 (38... Qf6 39.exf8=Q+ Kxf6 40.Qxf6+ Kg8 41.Re8+ Kh7 42.Rh8#; 38... Ke8 39.Qxf8+ Kd7 40.Qd8#) 39.Qxf8+ and 40.e8=Q wins.

B.1.b.ii) 37... Kh7 38.exf8=Q Qxf8 39.Re7+ wins the queen for the rook or delivers mate.

B.1.b.iii) 37... Kh8 38.exf8=Q Qxf8 39.Qe5+ Qg7 40.Qh5+ Qh7 (40... Kg8 41.Re8+ Qf8 42.Qg6+ Kh8 43.Rxf8#) 41.Re8+ Kg7 42.Re7+ wins.

B.2) 34... Kg7 35.Rxf7+ Kxf7 (35... Kg6 36.Bxh5+ Kxh5 37.Rh7+ Kg6 38.Qh6+ Kf5 39.Rf7+ Qf6 40.Q(R)xf6#) 36.Bxh5+ followed by 37.Bxe8 + - [B+P].

B.3) 34... Kg8 35.Rxf7 hxg4 (35... Kxf7 transposes to B.2) 36.Rf8+ transposes to B.1.b.

B.4) 34... Bc4 35.Bxh5 is crushing.

C) 33... Kg7 34.fxg6

C.1) 34... gxh5 35.gxf7 Kxf7 36.Rf1+ Kg7 (36... Kg8 37.Qg5+ and mate soon) 37.Qg5+ Qg6 (37... Kh7 38.Qh5+ Qh6 39.Rf7+, etc.) 38.Qe5+ wins the rook on d4.

C.2) 34... Bxg6 35.Bxh5 wins another pawn while keeping the attack (White threatens 36.Bxe6, fatally exposing the black king).

D) 33... Qf4 34.fxg6 Bxg6 35.Bxh5 + - [2P]. For example, 35... Qxe3 36.Rxe3 Bxh5 37.Rxh5+ Kg7 38.Rf5 with a won ending.

Mar-14-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  chrisowen: Sacked for one line a flight pawn f5 he at feel,

and frights accost in f4 ambled break it down in feint irons out f5 heads well for light to clip his wings effect indeed re fly be cred pawn delve in cat rode f5 black bemoans lack of room aim flow in castles look to caveat emptor back e1 and c5 be win h5 draws a line in the sand as if ive got this correct bishop and doubled rook plus queen do the damage aim fars seeculate to accumulate in e3 ear to the ground dutiful crum f5 pivot able to be a cuffed pawn hobble over neck arch f5 hook 8 it now in l0 win about line heads aim I be proof for walled line off at 32...Rd3 instead of at h5 comes to a head giving light room in stumped up the goods right fang hood rook hod carrier to drop a load of bricks on whites case in had to free rook edict it honour,

in of hope at got f4 in wheel devious again ploy a do much as tender duffed a kind suit yup went south at h5 away in light feels the pinch at d3 kind of keeps his game in-tact instead rich h5 picking to lash out and f5 threaten bishop enough at g4 hood march pawn finish f7 at jag bishop can g4 be sacrificed just about er do be nearly nod off fanoff at het uppered 8e la bind see to mack in duffed devious aim find one for f4 advanced his aim fed to see queen line going over batch d6 im liking the f4 trade as best for black stares into oblivion after king at enact I g7 lion breaks through in effect seeing pawn g6 gate crash f7 a king left to g7 a relatively safe pair of hands around f7,

although two pawns down it pick in path as looking bleak for inclusive gets squeezed by increment until alive no more in credible gain f5 mowing a path beaten safe got aid ogle a mind g6 threatens about half of blacks queen'sside tied up a gap find flow going for bishop really as not in a flap at all I engaged right a6 fob effect dangles about a key bishop and rook rail c5 h5 combine at rack black put in a bind cads dead as far as I can see one rook c5 emperor over h5 all surveys an e1s a gnarly one for linch pin head up on time f5 proves that black at sixes and sevens deploy cuff in express a majesty bogged down ratchet I against in principle thorax your h5 side in weaken it ok in fly f5 ooh one two step a dilemma churlish rooks i sense aim form a pact in harangues a black king he huffed and puffed aim blow in a bind f5 sacrifice scan d6 the horizon coast is call I clear king shuffle give at g7 he hoof a g6 tears it down the wall evermore inoble in be a good while at bishop dug bootch a curious notion opening up ply inceed for back be nearly a look for addendum bell tolls ar good um bless a feel f5 hood flap in forty winks or bet there about pawn h5 bane of black existence arrival at he mind lock rook chubb aim see fang f5 tooth and claw in dangles at each hiost first port of call should queen have been set f4 free do flinched in the face of dip cuffed aim fed d4 er rallying point to be decided it dog in dig forces at hears the call jack got bishop l0 win one for the scrap books as interesting finish a pet rook eave wheel a desired outcome as at h5 re point rook que one for in first common good rope along it accost in d3 rumbled in at rich picking h8 has kind honoured tradition snap at d3 hound as a pound off I f5 leash live in weight I had good game on the card it ardent in ash mark off a crypt rook in e8 has to stay put kind delivery it delicate in either bind and a xray take stock in clock stoke at so f5 a lump in throat he threat bone of contention axe queen inept I on e3 ensues call I wager d6 has to be swapped too rook efface off call dead plum in the water deaf fade see taken it down in dig bless am band counting back to crop deed is done on green in gauge line h5 effete am in two minds for fingers at d3 buffed effect re before for ghost bishops safe tucked majesty raid in e3 rooks head in convex your decree f7 all staff in shepherd a give g6 at able push a pew pawn light make f5 way creed to bullseye rook set in stone skim palm see one c5 ie slide at watch over sensed in scheme majesty eye of d6 sussed dipoff fare f5 game flog up and down overall the defence rests around case in point g6 and alf g4 whether paints a re-effluent rook stuck in e8 and d4 in no mans land queen flag in path,

revealed good be cost eg oh f4 rustle up ride a lion bank in bishop fledged seal of approval I um wax in seal dive rook majesty plum the depths a line shin h5 alm g4 in palm aid a feel c5 rook giving impetus again cruise a wave in blew h5 first bad to good fortune at cap off 33.f5.

Mar-14-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  chrisowen: A king again steps up tough in team call eg fan dangle g7 as bets are off in secure the bacon fair indeed play go might see pin 33...Kg7 and it's good deo meo fadeing up in a step cross to bear monarch eg give sail in flight backing a loose g6 dervish bishop f7 eg at elegy rates a bet enact encircles a wire at f7 and h5 laid to rest in flow as team call vigil at in f5 amor fati f5 stay key to believe it is h5 in jog h5 in stares him in the face feint stoke g7 keeps awake g6 behind aim a recall rook casts a long c5 shadow in e1 treads over and up bishop de-flated monarch eg win d6 choose lance a foot in walk be a path hot h5 coals eg ment quarter back am e7 engine ellucidate one for deinty prod to majesty rod for 33...Qxf4 34.fxg6 Qxe3+ second port of call it jet in jeep sear to monarch I sell as free pep in g6 see fage enshrine at head f7 over mouth g6 a key as pin court 35.Rxc3 Bxg6 36.Bxh5 Bxh5 (3.90) chief intelligence portray am route,

one key in light isnt it he in just again have plough e7 whites two pawns up and a passer d8.

I er deep pocket mine dig foot 34.fxg6 Bxg6 35.Bxh5 Rd3 or chest majesty in c3 alive free cat in face,

off roof steel a march in check elevates cable wire bus tore in d3 ear as put in slide try cascadences re-design a key escry 35...Re4 36.Qc3+ as carry and deliver tickle in across the waves try pin cervix your honour a wiggle and shimmy free clen eg liege nt addendum in sight ask for manage 36...Qd4+ find has to swap off tender spot in the sun deadens 37.Qxd4+ Rxd4 (4.64) in fada dada surreal down gauged bore ahead 2 pawns after defer tile ground for aged rook off grants tip end g6 bishop and a passer feels good ride a wave inland majesty it ogled add check 36.Qe5+ maybe and epi centre seem engaged middle very ebbs and bind bid classy 36.Qg5 b6 37.Rce5 Rd5 38.Bxg6 Rxe5 39.Rxe5 Qxg6 light 2 pawns ahead and good e7 chin passer feudal margin could be freed a better guild in clamour fend c5 rook feed a bagoff buffed cage c5 the drag on in a good while spark our energy 36...b6 or deem in a tour brief to the point press aim prefer 36...a6 32.Bxg6 Qxg6 38.qf4 Rg3 39.Rf1 =_ (17.47) black has to sac his left rook hive in h2 or danced in mark,

off time an hour glass ceiling shatter minimal resistance faced he elect for haggles and hamming steps up the retreat high noon feed see headlongs 39...Kh7 40.Qh4+ ado the math in culture doddle a focus to port veer left in change minds near much for concludes tiny pull at herd in catch hoofed at he door 40...Kg7 mate in 22 black has to sack h5 queen after a rook in heap down jams h5.

All that remain ha affable demise as boots on net a toe in let loose a tight prop heads abide the water a pin bottled g7 up king glad tiding guffaw in steerd out he clutches the toed end toot h5 re-trade off instigate rook e5 ha dampen the spirit feckled chain g6 threat over slide engulf in recoils the fresh pasture shape light in see free good bed congeal 37.Rcxe5 Bxh5 38.Rxh5 Rxa3 39.Rf5 Rd3 40.Re4 (2.03) white pawn in effective slot at e7 honed rooks technical win.

Mar-14-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  ajk68: Saw the line after move 33 but wasn't convinced I had the solution. I was looking for something more conclusive.
Mar-14-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  rudiment: Saw some elements but my, what a mesmerising line. Complete control from White.
Mar-14-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <<MostlyWatch> So a game of man v. machine is a game of man v. the computer programmer.>

Except that the programmer has a superior tool in terms of making calculations. So a better analogy is that a game of man vs. machine is a game of a man with a knife against a man with a gun. Oh sure, the man with the knife has some advantages but I wouldn't bet against the man with the gun.

An interesting idea is to look for a surprise down the line. But how do you define a “surprise”? One possibility is to be able to find a good move that the opponent, human or machine, does not see. And one way to do this is to be able search to a deeper depth than the opponent, but I don’t see how this is any different than seeing farther over the horizon than the opponent.

Mar-14-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Patriot: <<AylerKupp>: <<MostlyWatch> So a game of man v. machine is a game of man v. the computer programmer.>> Man created the automobile also, but I wouldn't run a foot race against it.
Mar-14-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: 36 Qg5 looks like an improvement over the text.


click for larger view

The general threat is to get the rook at c5 to e5, then e6.

If black for example, tries 36...Rd5, then after 37 Rxd5 cxd5 38 Bxg6 Qxg6 39 Qxd5 white has a nice advantage.


click for larger view

Mar-14-14  TheBish: Gelfand vs Aronian, 2013

White to play (33.?) "Difficult"

White is up a pawn, but it appears that after the attacked bishop retreats, Black will regain the pawn by capturing on f4. But instead of retreating, White can win by opening a path to Black's king.

33. f5!!

Now after 33...hxg4 34. Qh6+ Kg8 35. fxg6 Bxg6 (35...Qxg6 36. Rg5) 36. Be6+ Bf7 37. Rg5+ Qg6 38. Rxg6# finishes things quickly.

33...gxf5 34. Rxf5!

Better than 34. Bxf5 Rd5! when one of White's key attackers (the Rc5) is neutralized. Now losing is 34...Bg6? 35. Qh6+ Kg8 36. Rf8+ Rxf8 37. exf8=Q+ Qxf8 38. Qxg6+.

34...hxg4 35. Rxf7 Kg8 36. Ref1 and wins, as there are too many threats to meet, mainly 37. Rf8+ and 37. Qg5+.

Mar-14-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  M.Hassan: "Difficult"
White to play 33.? and White is a pawn up.

Some strange feeling informs me that the Queen should get to h6, therefore pawn movement:

33.f5 hxg4
34.Qh6+ Kg8
35.fxg6 Bxg6
36.Rg5 Kf7
37.Rxg6 Qxg6
38.Rf1+ Kxe7
39.Qxg6
And White wins!

Mar-14-14  vajeer: I wonder if 34.Bxh5 is better
34...gxh5 then Qg5+ followed by f6 looks strong

34....gxf5 then Bxf7 followed by Rxf5

Mar-14-14  Kinghunt: <An interesting idea is to look for a surprise down the line. But how do you define a “surprise”? One possibility is to be able to find a good move that the opponent, human or machine, does not see. And one way to do this is to be able search to a deeper depth than the opponent, but I don’t see how this is any different than seeing farther over the horizon than the opponent.>

I have given some thought to this, as it may be the best way to tune engines to play well against humans. (Not that they need any help, but they may get better results by not jumping at so many incredibly hard to find threats.)

I think a "surprise" may be considered as a move that causes a drastic evaluation shift above a certain depth. Suppose an engine searches to d=24, and has two moves that it evaluates roughly the same. Normally it just picks whichever one is a centipawn higher. But I think it can do better than that. It should play the move that scores <worse> at lower depths (say, d=18).

The idea is simple - if the evaluation has risen with depth, it means the engine refuted several defensive tries - defensive tries that seemed very plausible even at d=18. Anything engine approved at d=18 is likely to tempt a GM, or at least make them spend time thinking about it.

Let's make this a little more concrete. Suppose we have the following position, black to move:


click for larger view

Let's say the two candidates are 17...d5 and 17...O-O. At d=18, we get the following lines and scores:

17...d5 18. g6 hxg6 +1.25
17...O-O 18. g6 d5 19. +1.77

Then say the engine runs to d=24, and gives the following:

17...d5 18. g6 hxg6 +1.13
17...O-O 18. Rdg1 Rfc8 +1.15

I would argue that the engine should choose the second line. Why? Because the opponent is going to be tempted by 18. g6, as was the engine at d=18. However, at d=24, it found that after 17...O-O 18. g6, it has the resource 18...Bf6!, which drops the eval to +0.78.

That is how an engine can detect "surprise" and use it to "trick" its opponents. It risks very little, as at full depth, the moves evaluate similarly anyway.

It is, of course, a matter of parameter tuning to determine when two moves evaluate "close enough" to employ this strategy without undue risk, as well as the lower search depth being compared with, and some kind of function to integrate the two.

I would appreciate any and all feedback on this idea. I may cobble together my own version of Stockfish with the move selection changed in such a manner to be deliberately difficult for humans to play against.

Mar-15-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Patriot: <Kinghunt> That's an interesting idea. So if it happens to be losing it goes with a move that is actually better for its opponent while giving them a tempting way to screw up, since their limited search depth only allowed them to see how "great" 18.g6 is. Very clever!

That's sort of the way strong human players play. When they are losing they may go with a crazy move that is worse but gives them the best chance to get back in the game. After all, they are only going from "lost" to "dead lost" if it doesn't work.

May-21-18  Saniyat24: agadmator made a nice video in youtube on this game...!
May-21-18  Saniyat24: El Gatto got the big mouse...!
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