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Magnus Carlsen vs Hikaru Nakamura
Gashimov Memorial (2014), Shamkir AZE, rd 2, Apr-21
Slav Defense: Quiet Variation. Schallopp Defense (D12)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Given 9 times; par: 101 [what's this?]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 14 OF 14 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Apr-23-14  bobthebob: "Craziest thing you've ever done whilst inebriated discussion?"

Bxf7.

Problem was it was only move 3 and I was playing black.

Apr-23-14  RedShield: <<CG.com> informed me, in a reasoned letter, of the complaint. (They don't give me any special privileges I have to abide by the rules).>

That was very nice of them. Did it suggest you publicly apologise?

Apr-23-14  Rookiepawn: <KrSovetov> I think you are mistaken in giving up. If you are going to exclude yourself from forums where people write without thinking, then internet is not for you. I think it is right to point out racism is not funny, but I also think it is more complex than just "him or me".
Apr-23-14  PJs Studio: I think it's obvious the old Nazi term was used by Richard to show him as a learned man. One who is familiar with many terms. Offense wasn't his intent, although showing his intellectual prowess may have been.
Apr-23-14  independentthinker: Does anyone have a suggestion of what Carlsen's thinking was for 7. Bd3 ?
Apr-23-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  LucB: <Does anyone have a suggestion of what Carlsen's thinking was for 7. Bd3 ?>

I have the same question <independentthinker>.. perhaps this has been discussed in the first few pages of this thread when the move was played.. I for one will take a look..

Apr-23-14  PJs Studio: Dang! I'm usually the one who stops the madness and gets back to chess!

I think Magnus was interested in taking this game straight out of book and into a solid and yet potentially unbalanced position. Almost a "let's see how you do out of book..."

To get in Naka's head even more?

Apr-23-14  PJs Studio: It's a darn shame too because Nakamura is no less of a player than any of the other super GMs around. Btw, all of them have a crappy record v Magnus. The guy's a buzzsaw.
Apr-23-14  RookFile: I don't understand why black played 21....dxc4.
Apr-24-14  independentthinker: One person made a post that the bishop move was in response to a weakening made by h6. I read that as 'h6 weakens the light squares around the king, so let's set up an exchange of bishops that ends with White's queen dominating that white squared diagonal'. I've seen Karpov do similar things. However that is just speculation and when I suggested this explanation to Raymond Keene he did not respond other than "I am still baffled by the move'
Apr-24-14  mrbasso: < Does anyone have a suggestion of what Carlsen's thinking was for 7. Bd3 ?>

Isn't that obvious now?
Carlsen provoked Nakamura to stop e4 by all means (Bxc3,f5) which wasn't a very good idea.

Apr-24-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: < RedShield: <<CG.com> informed me, in a reasoned letter, of the complaint. (They don't give me any special privileges I have to abide by the rules).>

That was very nice of them. Did it suggest you publicly apologise? >

Yes. But it was up to me what I did. That was good. It meant I had to think for myself. (And, yes, what I had said was stupid for sure). But the letter took me by surprise. I didn't know there was any "controversy". I hadn't looked back here. I then saw everyone with a couple of exceptions going for my jugular - like, well, like crowds of people fired up by an idea...

I thought of various lines of action but as I am not sure who complained or why, so I decided to apologize.

But it does have some worrying implications. I would hate to see our freedom of speech curtailed by someone who has, shall we say, a problem more than with their plumbing than their morality. I feel thus "More sinned against than sinning." Some people can take great pleasure in their righteousness.

For anti-Semitism I refer you to one R. J. Fischer (Jewish himself he railed against Jews) and the shadow lies over A. Alekhine who played some great games in Nazi Germany during the war, as well as, allegedly, making anti-Jewish writings that the Nazis used.

To be completely squeaky clean, perhaps we should get rid of all of Fischer's (and perhaps Alekhine's) chess games from all records or data bases. He was fanatically anti Jewish and not pleasant to be around as can be seen on YouTubes and so on. (I mean in his later years).

But of course, he is a star, so they wont do that, Shoah or not.

Apr-24-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: If they did 'expunge' a la '1984', of course, there will still be secret records of his games played by "rebels".

The reality is you can laugh at or about anything. This reaction to my usage of "the naughty word" is the person "upsetting themselves". It was really obvious it was tongue-in-cheek so the real damage was done by our friend who has now disappeared. He may know me and have a grievance or be CIA or something, it seems he has either checked out or is "ignoring me". That is quite a stupid reaction.

The other worrying thing is that I am there, my name is clear, I don't hide where I live or anything, whereas all these people who "hate" me are almost inevitably anonymous. That needs to be corrected: it seems to me if not exactly illegal but certainly unjust that a person is ever accused of anything by someone who has not the courage to declare to me who he or she is, or to inform me quietly say on my Forum would be the ticket. Something like that.

But in fact it was one thing the Nazis relied on - anonymous allegations against German citizens. These complaints were often a grievance of a neighbour but the Gestapo acted on them. I am also getting "anonymous allegations".

But as to the Nazis I am not a big fan (to say the least) of them as Fischer was (or it seems, to many, Alekhine). I am not sure how I would react in A's situation as his wife was in France. But he was a White Russian and possibly quite right wing. Pachman watched him play chess during the war in Germany. The games are in the book by Alexander.

So the issue raises questions for sure.

And it was "nice of them". What are they to do: send the FBI over? The US Government gave "orders" to the NZ Police and they mounted a crazy attack on one 'Kim.com' for his Internet download company. But they failed to make much progress. Perhaps someone like myself could be seized in lieu of him and taken to Guantanamo (or other South or "Mid?") American destination for extermination and or torture instead?

That would learn me.

As it happens, in New Zealand (where I reside), Kim.com (who is Dutch) has been "accused" of possessing a copy of Mein Kampf (in German, signed by Hitler). Accused: as he is right now running for Parliament. I had a copy (a first English) of that once, but I sold it to chap, who, ironically again, was keen on war! Ironically because he was on ACC (support from the Govt.) as he had been shot by a jealous husband in the US, who was, to deepen the plot, an ex US military person who tried to kill him by standing up and shooting from the shoulder, by which time this bloke had dived towards his feet, but taken a blast in the mid regions which left him unwell and on ACC back in NZ: and studying sociology and history with a main interest (fascination - he said to me that war was necessary - perhaps he had read or misread Heraclitus or had some theory) in the US Civil War and WW2.

I have to say I found Hitler's book rather dull and stupid so it went to the War Man (EBay wouldn't offer it for auction) who was an alcoholic or as near as can be.

The Nazis were a terrible group and there is no doubt we should never forget these things as Susan Sontag and George Steiner remind us. Or indeed, there is the phrase of Hannah Arendt re Eichmann at his trial which she covered as a journalist (I read a book about how the Israeli agents captured him once). She used the term: "The banality of evil." And many of the survivors of the camps etc recalled that the Nazis were just like anyone else except in the way they behaved - that is, the implication was that anyone of us potentially could become like them.

Even as a teenager I had read Ann Frank's diary, and of course we all knew about the Holocaust. I once saw a TV film of Ann Frank's diary and it was so disturbing, even though I'd seen it before, that I lay "in restless ecstasy" all night, almost in torment. Unfortunately I had a game of chess the next day, and largely due to this I lost the game.

Apr-25-14  Ulhumbrus: One question which comes to mind when seeing such moves as 23...dc is: Why is Nakamura making all these concessions to his opponent? This suggests the following piece of advice for Nakamura when facing Carlsen: Don't try too hard to win: Carlsen would never give you these concessions in an attempt to win.
Apr-25-14  RedShield: <That was very nice of them. Did it suggest you publicly apologise?

Yes. But it was up to me what I did.>

Did you keep the email? I'd be interested to know how this suggestion or request was worded. I'm sure <cg.com> wouldn't mind your sharing, pour encourager les autres.

<so I decided to apologize.

But...>

<1. The word “but” has no place in your apology.

Neither does it’s sophisticated sister, “however.” Either you are sorry or you aren’t. No buts. When you add the word “but” into an apology, you are effectively negating the entire thing. “I am sorry I hurt your feelings, but…” Yeah, I’m not sorry. I just put my “but” in and told you why you actually deserved my bad behavior. Not helpful.>

http://www.elephantjournal.com/2012...

I suspect that <peristilo>'s optimism that <this whole discussion had its positive side since some lessons were taught and I hope also learnt> was somewhat misplaced.

<Some people can take great pleasure in their righteousness.>

< In the volumes covering 1931-41, which have just been published in Germany, Heidegger described Jews as having “a talent for calculation”, and of opposing the Nazis’ racial theories despite “having lived according to the race principle for longest”.>

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...

Apr-25-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: <Richard Taylor: ...But of course I meant it all in a jolly way - think of Dudley Moore and Peter Cook as in 'Derek and Clive' and so on...>

That is certainly the way I took it; very Derek & Clive-y What's-The-Worst-Job-You-Ever-Had style. But I fear that that type of humour, like some wine, does not <travel>.

Apr-25-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  soldal: <Did you keep the email? I'd be interested to know how this suggestion or request was worded.>

Maybe <Brownshirt> (bka <RedShield>, <Feldgrau>, <IndigoViolet> and 10 more) would like to share with us the emails he's received from cg.com? In the meantime, here's one public message:

<Mar-18-13
chessgames.com: For crying out loud, <IndigoViolet> please check your racial theories at the door. You can take a 1-2 day break now and chill out. The rest of you, please drop that banter and stay on topic.>

World Championship Candidates (2013)

Apr-25-14  1d410: Nakamura missed out on drawing with this one by ruining his own pawn wall. He did it to himself. The perils of attacking and playing to win.
Apr-25-14  RookFile: He basically had a Dutch stonewall position where he had even gotten rid of the bad c8 bishop. Rule #1 in the Dutch is you don't play dxc4 even if it wins a pawn. Leave the pawn on d5 and I'm sure black has some way to get a draw out of this.
Apr-25-14  SirRuthless: This is always how nakamura loses with black to carlsen. He is easily provoked and can become rather careless with his pawns in search for piece activity while magnus feasts on such small advantages in pawn structures. This is why magnus has such a large plus score for only a 100 point rating difference. Nakamura is a player that needs to be doing *something*, even if that something is ruining his own pawn structure. It is in his nature to push his position into the danger zone and exhaust all chances in an attempt to win the game. Something I have had to get used to as a fan of his aggressive style is a high risk of implosion in any given game.
Apr-25-14  Marmot PFL: Looks more to me like black was just trying to trade down and draw than making any serious attempt to win. Usually Nakamura plays the King's Indian or Dutch in those cases.
Apr-26-14  peristilo: Thanks God we still can talk about chess here!
Apr-27-14  RedShield: For the record (it's gratifying to know that people are taking notes), I've never received any private communication from <cg.com>.

I surmise this may be for one of three reasons.

i)It's a privilege afforded only to premium, i.e., paying members.

ii)Nothing I post (1675 posts and counting) has been found objectionable.

iii)They dare not risk losing their best poster.

I have found this episode enlightening, because it confirms that, in the liberal victimology stakes, <Holocaust survivor> still merits top trump.

Apr-28-14  Jack Kerouac: <MarkFinian> 'Inebriated discussion ?' I could write a book on it. Wait! I did!
Oct-11-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  thegoodanarchist: Grilled Schallopp's
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