|May-02-14|| ||Phony Benoni: I guess I'm just not enough of a hypermodern to appreciate White's abbreviated center. But in any event, <24....Nxf2> is always the type of move to consider and is immediately justified by 25.Kxf2 Qf5+.|
So, in a game, I would probably play it once I saw it wasn't a real sacrifice. And I would undoubtedly play 28...Qxf3 if I got there. Whether I <would> get there is quite another question.
|May-02-14|| ||Cheapo by the Dozen: Over the board I'd try 24 ... Nxf2, with the idea of a queen fork at f5 and, if White lets things get to the point of Qxb1, doubling on the bank rank with Rc1.|
Another part of the idea is mate threats based around Qxe2 and -- which would require that White's bishop is no longer at g2 -- Nh3.
I can't see any lines in which Bxd5 lets White fully defend.
|May-02-14|| ||M.Hassan: "Difficult"
Black to play 22...?
My gut feeling move: take f2 pawn;
<if 25.Kxf2 Qf5+ 26.Kg1 Bxg2 27.Kxg2 Qxb1 and Black has become better in material>
Black is a pawn up and seems to be better and that's what I can see.
Will check the game now
|May-02-14|| ||al wazir: I got black's first move but never even considered 25. Nf3, so I don't have to embarrass myself by revealing the rest of my analysis.|
|May-02-14|| ||Once: So today's philosophical question has to be ... "does it matter if you didn't see 25. Nf3?"|
Admittedly, it isn't up there with the great questions of all time, such as "if a tree falls over in a forest and no-one hears it does it make a sound?" or "do androids dream of electric sleep?". Or, for that matter, how come "does my bum look big in this" isn't a question, but "I love you" is?
Or where does your lap go when you stand up?
But I guess that "does it matter if I didn't see Nf3?" is a question that many of us will be asking ourselves this Friday morning.
Let's hear the counsel for the prosecution first...
Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, I put it to you that it does matter. With 25. Nf3, White seals off the f file and stops black's queen fork of f2 and the unprotected rook on b1. Black has to navigate his way through a tricky little sequence. After 25. Nf3 Qxe2 26. Re1 we get to this position:
click for larger view
Now black has to find 26...Nh3+ (as played in the game) because any other move leads to equality or a white advantage. For example 26...Qd3 27. Kxf2.
And after 26...Nh3+ 27. Kh1, you have to find either 27...Qxf3 (mate in 2 by way of a queen sacrifice) or the trickier 27...Qd3 threatening Q or Bxf3.
The case for the prosecution is that 25. Nf3 requires black to examine a sequence of "only" moves including (in some lines) the temporary sacrifice of black's queen.
The case for the prosecution rests.
Now we will hear the case for the defence.
Your honour, ladies and gentleman of the jury ... M'learned colleague has told you about the complicated lines after 25. Nf3 Qxe2. But I put it to you that none of this matters.
25. Nf3 does nothing to threaten white. It does not trap the black paratrooper knight on f2. It doesn't recover the lost white pawn. It doesn't threaten a single one of black's pieces.
So, sure black could embark on the complicated adventures of 25...Qxe2 which offer great rewards but also require an element of calculation. But equally, black could simply retreat his Nf2 and stay a safe pawn up with a dominant position.
I put it to you that 25...Ne4 or 25...Ng4 are perfectly adequate responses to 25. Nf3. No calculation required.
And so ladies and gentleman of the jury, the decision is yours. Did you have to see 25. Nf3 before playing 24...Nxf2 and then understand the complexities of 25...Qxe2 26. Re1? Or is it enough that 25. Nf3 does nothing to respond to black's snaffling of a pawn and so doesn't need serious consideration - or any consideration at all?
That, my friends, is the question...
|May-02-14|| ||HaydenB: Qxf3! The scorpion's sting at the tail end of the combination. I saw Nxf2 and Qxe2 but not the real point, good puzzle.|
|May-02-14|| ||morfishine: A unique position in that certain tactics are apparent, for example: 24...Nxf2 25.Kxf2 Qf5+ snagging the rook on <b1>|
But here after 24...Nxf2 <25.Bxd5> looks sufficient for White to hold, barely
A good position for visualizing various continuations, for example both <24...Nxf2> <24...Nxg3> seem aggressive, but <24...Qf5> attacking both <f2> and the rook on <b1> indirectly looks dangerous
Well, this could go on and on, which is good, if one is interested in training, practice, etc.
|May-02-14|| ||landogriffin: Strange one in that I looked at it for about a minute without even getting close to seeing anything.
Eventually it became apparent that the hanging rook on b1 had to be involved and after that Nxf2 jumped out.
Saw there were some mating threats, but nothing too concrete after that...
Giving myself a quarter point for this one; good puzzle!|
|May-02-14|| ||LucB: Wow, nice.. and if 28.Rg1, then 28...Nf2#|
|May-02-14|| ||diagonalley: i gazed at this freakin' thing for ages... to no avail :-( ...what a superb combo|
|May-02-14|| ||patzer2: The position I had trouble visualizing a win from was + 24...Nxf2! 25. Bxd5 Qxd5 26. Nf3 (position below)|
click for larger view
Black is a pawn up with the initiative, but seeing the finishing blow is difficult.
Turning to the computer for assistance, Fritz 12 finds the strong 26...Nh3+! (+4.78 @ 21/48 depth) when play might continue 27. Kg2 Qe6 28. Re1 g5 29. Bc3 g4 30. Ng1 Bxc3 31. dxc3 Qe4+ 32. Kf1 Qh1 .
P.S.: Would classify this Friday's 24...Nxf2! as a demolition combination because of the initial pawn capture, the difficult King hunt to follow and the variety of tactical themes involved.
|May-02-14|| ||NM JRousselle: I have warned students many times about loose pieces. This game can be added to the collection of loose pieces that cost games.|
|May-02-14|| ||kevin86: The knight penetration will lead to a quaint queen sac just a few moves later.|
|May-02-14|| ||DcGentle: Well, you could regard this game as a cautionary tale of a loose piece, but...|
"When you see a good move, look for a better one."
And here, Black can be more generous. When White grabs a piece, he wouldn't most likely decline the next piece, would he? So let's try:
24... Nxf2 25. Kxf2 <a kinght is a knight> 25... Bxg2 26. Kxg2 <a bishop is a bishop> 26... Qxe2+ 27. Kh3 Qf1+ 28. Ng2 Qf5+ 29. g4 Qf3# <oops>
|May-02-14|| ||LIFE Master AJ: To me, this wasn't real hard.
Loose/hanging rook on b1.
All you really have to see is 24.NxP/f2! Δ of 25.KxN/f2, Qf5+; and 26...BxB/g2! and then 27...QxR/b1. ( )
Not that difficult, felt more like a Tuesday problem than a Friday one.
|May-02-14|| ||sombreronegro: Black temporarily owns the center and f2 looks weak. OTB I would be looking there. However I must say that the d pawn covering e3 to neutralize the bishop and the knight covering the rook infiltration on c2 to try and pin the d pawn would give me pause to sac my knight. But now after a few minutes I just noticed the white rook is loose on b1.Looks like the queen can exploit both weaknesses. Q to f5 looks playable, but I suppose the immediate N X f2 is forcing.|
|May-02-14|| ||sombreronegro: <I have warned students many times about loose pieces. This game can be added to the collection of loose pieces that cost games.>|
Good lesson indeed. If you can expose the king, look for loose pieces in the position. All provoked from a simple jab at the isolated b pawn.I think that move is more interesting in fact. You give white a problem where white feels tied down having to guard it with his queen.Thinking the rook is the more economical defense, it becomes a defensive liability itself.
|May-02-14|| ||DcGentle: <sombreronegro>: Well, yes. Grab the piece. :-)|
But sometimes also in chess this is valid:
<It is more blessed to give than to receive.>
(see my posting above)
|May-02-14|| ||howlwolf: I thought that Nf2 was clearly the best move, and suspected that Bd5 would be the white response; I considered for awhile Qe2 in response to Bd5 sacking the bishop and threatening mate in two with Nh3+, followed by Of1 mate but grudgingly came to the conclusion that Nf3 would hold the position for white and that his extra material would be sufficient for a win. So returning to 25 Bd5 Qd5 26 Qa6 what does black do? 26..Qh1+ 27Kf2 Qh2+ 28Ng2 Be5 29Qc8+ Kg7 30 Oc6 I don't see a mate for black and he is a lot of material down. If black responds to Qa6 by moving the rook, to d8 say, I think white can play d3 and black has to retreat his knight, material is equal, and while I think black is better, I don't see a forced win for black. What am I missing?|
|May-02-14|| ||DcGentle: <howlwolf>: After <24... Nxf2 25. Bxd5> just try <25... Nh3+> After <26. Kg2 Qxd5+> White can take the knight on h3, but with <27. Kxh3 Qh5+ 28. Kg2 Qxe2+ 29. Kh3 Qf1+ 30. Ng2 Qf5+ 31. g4 Qf3#>
he won't be happy. Black will be, though.|
|May-02-14|| ||howlwolf: DcGentle, After Qxd5+ white doesn't have to take the knight and can play Nf3 but after Ng5 black is a pawn up, with the attack and with many of white's pieces, particularly the queen, poorly placed. I suppose that would make me happy, with the position anyway. Thanks|
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|May-02-14|| ||CC0112358: Material is even. White must protect the g2 bishop at all costs from the d5 black bishop attack|
25. Nf3 Qxe2!
26. Re1 Nh3+
27. Kh1 Qxf3
From here no matter white's response (Rg2, Rg1, Bxf3.....) all lead to a very quick mate. White's queen on a3 is unfortunately blocked out of play by its own b3 pawn.
|May-02-14|| ||agb2002: The material is identical.
The white rook and the pawn on d2, e2 and f2 are defenseless.
These details suggest 24... Nxf2:
A) 24.Kxf2 Bxg2
A.1) 25.Nxg2 Qf5+ 26.Ke3 Qxb1 27.Qxa6 Qxb3+ - + [R+P vs N].
A.2) 25.Kxg2 Qe4+ 26.Kf2 Qxb1 27.Qxa6 Rc1 28.d3 Qxb3 29.Qxb5 Bd5+ looks good for Black (30.e3 Bxe3+ 31.Kxe3 Rxe1+).
B) 24.Bxd5 Qxd5
B.1) 25.Kxf2 Qf5+ looks similar to previous lines.
B.2) 25.Rc1 (or 25.Qxa6) 25... Nh3+ 26.Kf1 Qh1#.
C) 24.Nf3 Qxe2 25.Qxa6 Ra8 26.Qb6 Nh3+ 27.Bxh3 (27.Kh1 Bxf3 - +) 27... Qxf3 threatening to win the rook or the king side pawns.
Another option is 24... Qf5 with the same idea. A funny line is 25.f3 Nxg3 26.e4 Bd4#.
I think I'd play 24... Nxf2.
|May-03-14|| ||LIFE Master AJ: 25.Nf3 wasn't that great of a move, White quickly drops a couple of Pawns.|