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Samuel Shankland vs Judit Polgar
Chess Olympiad (2014), Tromso NOR, rd 8, Aug-10
Bogo-Indian Defense: Grünfeld Variation (E11)  ·  1-0
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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Aug-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  SirRuthless: There was no gamble. The sac was the only choice and she was probably lost with correct play even before that due to Qg5. She was in swindle mode. Remember, Judit didn't need to win. She only needed a draw to secure the match for the Hungarians.Just totally outplayed by Shanks.
Aug-10-14  Pulo y Gata: Look at the position after White's 28.Qd2. Does Black need to sac on e4? No. Does she have better chances holding the draw (if you say she doesn't have to win) a piece down than with inferior position but equal material? No. She clearly made the sac for some pressure against White's king. Unsound, And she propbably knew it, but she clearly wasn't playing for the draw.

By saying that she gambled the sac, I am not in any way taking away from Shank's sound play, if it appears that way to you.

Aug-10-14  Pulo y Gata: Well, of course, if you throw in Houdini who am I to argue? Shankland will play like an engine of course and Judit will go the foregone conclusion. Such is chess in modern times.
Aug-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  SirRuthless: <<Pulo y Gata: Well, of course, if you throw in Houdini who am I to argue? Shankland will play like an engine of course and Judit will go the foregone conclusion. Such is chess in modern times.> Or you could just ask the player who, you know, won... >
Aug-10-14  Pulo y Gata: Well, of course, if you throw in Houdini who am I to argue? Shankland will play like an engine of course and Judit will go the foregone conclusion. Such is chess in modern times.
Aug-10-14  Pulo y Gata: And we can't argue with the winner and posit our own views. Thank god for houdini!
Aug-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  SirRuthless: You win. Polgar is a FIGHTER.
Aug-10-14  Pulo y Gata: Of course she is and she's proven it time and again. What you want to think is that Shank got the win any way she goes, but otb chess is not as simple as that. Shank played well and ouplayed Judit but to say that the sac was the <only move> is preposterous. She probably will still lose without that, which bings me back to my comment: She gambled on it, hoping that the pressure it yielded would amount to something. Shank dashed her hopes, kudos to him.
Aug-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  posoo: lol look at da two fighters! Calm down ruthless and poolo, it is ONLY A GAME

dat said, i a VERY proud of shunklund. NO DRAUGHS FOR DA ENTIRE OLYMPIAD!

Aug-10-14  kupton: Poor Judit not very pretty and game not very pretty.
Aug-10-14  Fish55: <kupton> Evidently Judit is more attractive than you, inside and outside.
Aug-11-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: The evidence, at least on a personal basis, is very clear.
Aug-11-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  ketchuplover: 51...Bxc4 looks decent imo
Aug-11-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Fusilli: The knight sac is typical of Judit, who doesn't mind to be material down if she has dynamic piece play. And she has always been dangerous when given dynamic piece play. It's only about 20 moves later that it is clear she is lost. Kudos to Shank for keeping it cool and making the material advantage count.
Aug-11-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: So what has happened here? It appears that a post has been deleted.

"Judit gambled the sac to try to win, but it was simply unsound."

Good post but some lad (deleted?) plugged in a computer, it says it was the best move so he proudly tells the poster it was the best move. Is it?

I thought it was a good old fashioned piece of mis-calculation.

You have to be a very good-very bad player to spot these things.


click for larger view

The idea being to spot something along the lines of:

30... Nxg2 31. Qxg5 Nf4+ 32. Kg1 Nh3+ checkmate.


click for larger view

The slight flaw being it is not checkmate.

A lovely piece of sloppy analysis which no computer would ever come up with but many an under 2000 player will.

Is that was Judit saw and missed...No!

But I bet the idea flicked across her mind and was quickly thrown out.

Precedents, look no further than.

J Torres Caravaca vs Alekhine, 1922

Same mating pattern with a Queen sac thrown - like all good - bad players you must know your classics.

Aug-11-14  Pulo y Gata: The poster involved deleted his posts showing the computer evaluations to prop his earlier post that the sac was Judit's only move. An old dirty kibitzing trick to pull on someone. The last one who did this to me was one revered analyst in this site, after I called out his denigration of some GMs and we got into a kibate (a kibitzing debate, if I may coin a word).
Aug-11-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  posoo: lol ruflus nice try!
Aug-11-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  SirRuthless: I deleted them beceause even though I CLEARLY STATED THAT THEY WERE COMPUTER LINES the greater point was that Shankland thought the sac was the best way to go and I was using an appeal to his authority to try and support my assertion which was also wrong. As far as knowing classics? Would be nice to know a few more but I am not particularly smart and my memory was not particularly strong.
Aug-11-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  SirRuthless: In short, the not-so-subtle jabs are unnecessary. You both are correct and I will concede the point. The sac was not necessarily the best way to go. Any implication that I was putting forth comp analysis as my own is misguided.
Aug-11-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Marmot PFL: <"Judit gambled the sac to try to win, but it was simply unsound.">

White was threatening 29 Bxc5 bc5 30 Nd6 with attack on Bb7 and f7, as well as g3 forcing black into a queen trade and a bad ending. So the sac might have been the best alternative. White still gets a winning ending but has to work for it.

Aug-11-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: Ahh..

I thought a post had been deleted.

Here is the final position of the Alekhine game I mentioned.


click for larger view

Forgot to add it to my post (either that or someone deleted it).

Nov-02-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  wordfunph: "One day I'll be able to tell my grandchildren that I was the last man ever to beat Judit Polgar in a professional game."

- Samuel Shankland

Source: NIC Magazine 2014 #6

Nov-02-14  solskytz: And of course <Sally Simpson>, quite aside from the fact that in your variation, the final ...Nh3 is not mate - white also didn't have to go Kg1, as both Bg2 and Qg2 in response to ...Nf4 (dis) check would leave him up a couple of pieces for three pawns in a very simple ending
Nov-03-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: Hi solskytz,

"...Nh3 is not mate...."

I did infact add:

"The slight flaw being it is not checkmate."

The whole line I gave is pure fantasy. I made that clear.

"A lovely piece of sloppy analysis......"

You have been playing chess too long and need a break. It looks like you saw the word 'Mate' and stopped reading.

'Mate' ends a game of chess, it does not signify the end of a post.

Jun-18-15  solskytz: lol!! Indeed... can't even remember what I was thinking when posting that...

maybe a sloppy analysis deserves a sloppier answer...

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