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Magnus Carlsen vs Viswanathan Anand
Carlsen - Anand World Championship Match (2014), Sochi RUS, rd 4, Nov-12
Formation: King's Indian Attack (A07)  ·  1/2-1/2
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 29 OF 29 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-13-14  Chris321: Agree with OBIT on most of things he say there esp last parts,Carlsen must play straight 1.e4 stuff and he will get thereby more out of his opening,this closed stuff than Reti and KI Attack doesn't work not even for Carlsen!.
Nov-13-14  Ulhumbrus: Spassly got into trouble with the pawn formation after 5...exd5 in the game Fischer vs Spassky, 1992 and Carlsen probably knew that
Nov-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: < OBIT: The Fischer-Tal game that Richard Taylor alludes to is this one: Fischer vs Tal, 1961

I don't think you can say this game relates to Carlsen's play today in any way. For one thing, Fischer never even fianchettoed his bishop, instead playing Be2. (Apparently, this move was never considered by Tal's analytic team, but Fischer found it OTB.) Fischer went on to win his game with sharp play, quite in contrast with Carlsen's insipid approach. I realize milking marginally better positions to a victory has been Carlsen's stock-in-trade, but I honestly wonder if this is such a good idea in a World championship match. Surely he'd have more winning chances with sharper openings that gave Anand more opportunities to go wrong, especially with White >

Yes, that's true. I was thinking of examples. I didn't realise that Carlsen plays this opening quite a lot.

Then I recalled Fischer's games in a book of his games that came out about 1963 or so. In it there were some examples of KI Attacks.

The Tal game (quite a different game) happened because Tal actually blundered (or made and error) on about move 4 or so. He thought he had played his usual a6. (Which is nowadays omitted in (say) the Bastrikov-Taimanov.) It was a sharp game.

But Carlsen plays some nice attacking games, and I wouldn't call his play 'insipid'. Most chess games at this level are relatively "quiet" shall we say. It is a question of style.

In fact most of Fischer's wins were not particularly sharp against major GM's but were similar in character to the way Capablanca, Karpov, and well...hmmm...Carlsen played. Often he showed great technique in endings. He was very confidant, but so is Carlsen.

In the last match Anand didn't play so well. I think the problem was pyschological. Age or fitness might be a factor. But this time both Carlsen are playing quite sharply although there was some sharp play in one or two games by Carlsen.

In any case, in this match, both players seem to be playing to their best, so to speak. An interesting match so far.

Pity it is so short and ends with a shoot out and the toss of a coin. It will perhaps end "not with a bang but a whimper." Of course, for the lusting fans who love to see the gladiators mauled and blood spurting out: there is always the final DOOM GAME!!

The old days of the real masters has long gone...

Nov-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: It's impossible to predict this match but it is good to see Anand keeping up with the important things.

It would be sad to see him sliced off the board as it looked he might. Even the Candidates wasn't convincing as the GMs weren't playing very sane chess. (Aronian played some bizarre things)

[I don't mean there weren't some great games, there were.]

Then Carlsen was bested by Caruana who is very good so it probably gave Anand more hope.

There was a time when certain players seemed almost unbeatable but that never lasts....

So it all must have given Anand hope, and it seems to have paid off.

Nov-13-14  ScottElliott: Why not 32 Qe5? Either White's queen gets a strong position or the queens get exchanged. If the latter, then all that is necessary is to exchange knights and then White should have a won king and pawn endgame by creating a passed b-pawn. Or with knights on the board black's a and d-pawns are isolated and weak.
Nov-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  hedgeh0g: <ScottElliott> 32.Qe5!? is an interesting try. I imagine Black would play 32...Qd8, which would probably obligate White to play Nd4 and exchange knights (otherwise ...d4 would be very comfortable for Black).

White will try to create a passed pawn on the queenside while Black will rely on his d-pawn to tie down the White queen. I suspect the position is more or less balanced, but White's superior queen should give him a slight plus.

Nov-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jim Bartle: <indianfan> <I am almost certain that Carlsen will not open either e4 or d4 tomorrow...>

So much for that prediction.

Nov-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <Jim> He will try weaselling his way out by claiming that a KIA was reached, so that 1.e4 was not really important.

Just another wanker.

Nov-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: I don't know about 32.Qe5. but here:


click for larger view

32. Qb5 threatening Qb8+ and nicking the a7 pawn would have been quite good for a laugh.

One can just imagine the comments on here had Carlsn played it. One can also imagine the splash Carlsen would have made after jumping off the nearest bridge.

Home preparation is all part of the game. Some wonderful ideas and TN's have come from home prep. Often some are never used so saved up for a later date like a ticking time bomb with the players concerned agreeing who ever has the chance to play first gets to play it.

One wonders what it must be like having a corker of a TN up your sleeve knowing that anyday now someone else may stumble upon it and play it.

In this day and age some will have come from computers (and never given the credit.)

The first example of home prep?

Possibly Captain Evans hitting upon the idea of 4.b4 in the 1820's.

Nov-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  hedgeh0g: <Sally Simpson> After 32.Qb5 Qxf3+, Black would be the one laughing.
Nov-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: OK you spotted it, but would have Anand?

Reading some of the other post on here we have to remember he is old and 32.Qb5 would not have been any part of home preparation.

:)

Nov-13-14  Chris321: All and all sort of to sum up on a sort of a random way(because i havn't gone into some deep analysis on this game yet)but Anand looks to be a very tough cookie for Carlsen this time around!.,sort of a bit better than Carlsen,but we shall see what we shall see! :)
Nov-13-14  kramputz: <Sally Simpson>: Sorry Rookfile, I spelt your nik wrong. I aint gonna correct it -touch post.

What kind of a stupid grammar is this?

Nov-13-14  docbenway: Oh Indianfan, where are you? Working the night shift? Look,I doubt anyone here is guilty of putting a pin in your blow up Shiva doll or hiding your broom at work so why so cranky? So what if your chakras are misaligned causing you to go tilt on the great mandala harshing your mellow in such a chronic way-try getting with Dylan and just watch the river flow.
Nov-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: "What kind of a stupid grammar is this?"

It's cockney speech, init! Proper English. nufink wrong wiffit.

Nov-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <kramputz> Suh, suh, Ah'll tell yew what--y'all want some o' that there proper like grammar, take a trip ta some of the places Ah bin. Knock yer socks off. Ain't quite the same as watching that evening news, lemme tell ya!
Nov-14-14  Chessmusings: Unique analysis of Game Four from the 2014 Word Chess Championship: http://chessmusings.wordpress.com/2...
Nov-14-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: < ScottElliott: Why not 32 Qe5? Either White's queen gets a strong position or the queens get exchanged. If the latter, then all that is necessary is to exchange knights and then White should have a won king and pawn endgame by creating a passed b-pawn. Or with knights on the board black's a and d-pawns are isolated and weak. >

Yes. Interesting. The engine plays 32....Qd8 33. Nd4 Nxd4 34. Qxd4. I think the ending is still practically equal with Queens on.

But it is easier for White. I have no idea. In theory Black needs to keep as many pieces on as he can.

Nov-14-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: wo'ts wrongg wiv evvi bodi --- i fort dare waz nufink wrrongk wiv wot waz zed boi u zed i' zo dare
Nov-14-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: <perfidious> don' ya wotch att telli matey itz na goo' fa ya all dat noo stuff peeple shuld stey awey fromm wha'ever i' iz i waz sayink u may az wll goo ann landining [ ---gggggggg jjjjjasdf asd ... asdfasdf ... ] on aa Komottt wiv a fingthingyymebob an...ahhh...an sta at ome an be saffe oi fink any case {} an & |||||||||| $$ %% # )(*)(*^ i fink i am so me ting

Hullo

i'll go an ave me poills noww

Nov-14-14  Ulhumbrus: My last message contained a typing error so here I am sending it again:

Spassky got into trouble with the pawn formation after 5...exd5 in the game Fischer vs Spassky, 1992 and Carlsen probably knew that

Nov-14-14  Cheapo by the Dozen: My take, having read little of the foregoing commentary:

Carlsen eventually achieved a position in which Black had no advantages to counterbalance his inferior pawn structure. But somehow Anand (re)gained a clear initiative in the form of the d-pawn, and whatever Carlsen envisioned as a counterattack was lame enough that he was happy to take the draw-in-hand that Q+P endings commonly provide.

Nov-16-14  tranquilsimplicity: <Richard Taylor>
Come on Richard...he..he..he..You have to agree that <Perfidious> on <kramputz> is funny. As much as I would avoid laughing at anyone.#
Nov-16-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: <tranquilsimplicity: <Richard Taylor> Come on Richard...he..he..he..You have to agree that <Perfidious> on <kramputz> is funny. As much as I would avoid laughing at anyone.#>

But is he funnier than me?

Nov-17-14  tranquilsimplicity: He..he..he..No. You are funnier!#
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