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Magnus Carlsen vs Viswanathan Anand
"Flogging a Dead Andalusian" (game of the day Aug-14-2017)
Carlsen - Anand World Championship (2014), Sochi RUS, rd 7, Nov-17
Spanish Game: Berlin Defense. l'Hermet Variation Berlin Wall Defense (C67)  ·  1/2-1/2


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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 43 OF 43 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: I csn't believe that we're still arguing about whether Carlsen committed some sort of breach of etiquette by continuing to play on in R+N v. R, and even whether the arbiter should have intervened to stop the game. World-class players like Ivanchuk and Judit Polgar have lost this ending. If they could lose it, so could Anand. Carlsen had already beaten 2600+ GM L'Ami in this ending. It was perfectly reasonable for him to see if he could also beat Anand.
Nov-18-14  Sally Simpson: Hi FSR.

Are this lot still moaning. Geezy peeps.

It would have come as no surprise to Anand that Carlsen played on and on for the win.

He knew he would getting involved in the Carlsen torture the moment he sacrificed his Bishop for those two pawns.

Infact nobody would have more surprised than Anand if Carlsen had stopped playing. Anand knew what was coming and so did most of us.

There was no insult and nobody got annoyed except of course a few fragile souls on here claiming it was an easy draw.

(sit opposite one sometime with a clock ticking and a very clever player opponent testing you.)

Nov-18-14  chesssalamander: Honestly, I do find this debate about what is and what is not good etiquette or good sportsmanship in chess quite interesting. BUT, I have two rather simple questions for anyone who might know offhand:

(1) Is this the longest (highest number of moves) game in World Championship history?

(2) What was the total time taken (in hours and minutes) for this game?

I apologize if my questions were already answered on earlier posts on the board, but I missed them.

Nov-18-14  chesssalamander: Sorry, one more question: if I understand correctly, chess has been solved for all positions involving 6 or more pieces on the board. So, if I understand this correctly, after Carlsen's 92.Nxa2, we can KNOW that the position is objectively won/lost/drawn by consulting a tablebase (although the players might not realize it). Do I understand correctly?
Nov-18-14  SimonWebbsTiger: @<chesssalamandar>

Karpov-Korchnoi, Baguio World Ch match 1978 saw a longer game and a stalemate. Korchnoi vs Karpov, 1978

The Vishy-Magnus game was about 6 and a half hours.

Nov-18-14  SimonWebbsTiger: @<chesssalamandar>

re. q.3

Yes, positions with 7 and less pieces (counting the Kings) have been solved by tablebase.

Nov-18-14  chesssalamander: Thank you <SimonWebbsTiger> !!

7 or less? Then, it would be after Vishy's 77....Kb3, that we can know objectively that the game was won/drawn?

Nov-19-14  Sally Simpson: Hi chesssalamander,

Longest games in a World Champion is:

Korchnoi vs Karpov, 1978

A 124 move stalemate. I'm sure if Carlsen knew this he would have made a few more moves to break it.

Sounds like the kind of thing he would be proud of. :)

In the above game Korchnoi missed a mate in 7 on move 55

click for larger view

Starting with 55.Bf7+

Thus giving me more ammo for my claim that 99% of endgames should never had gone to an endgame as the game could have have and should have been decided in the middle game.

(Actually that is a load of utter naff but it's an excellent way to wind up the poe-faced, head up their ass about endings mob.)

Now what was the second question?

I think table bases are up to 7 pieces. (the technical term is 7 units.) Though I may be corrected on that one, It's possibly still 6 units.

They are solving chess slowly but surely, backwards.

Players will know certain set up's are drawn but every position hides pitfalls ready for the unwary. It just takes one slip.

Here is an old link (I've just tested it, it still works) to a tablebase thingy for 6 units. It's very good.

I played with it for a few days just looking at King and Pawn endings. King + 2p v King + 2p. = 6 units.

Drawish looking positions suddenly turned into wins just by placing a King one square away (but still covering a queening square) or pulling a pawn back one square or shifting it to another file.

Even swapping who's move it was.

For example...did you know that.

click for larger view

White to move draws this.
Black to play mates in 28 moves.

KQQ v KQQ endings are also fun to look at. Just make up random positions It's also good for creating and testing 6 unit studies.

Have fun. Nice talking to you.

Nov-19-14  Sally Simpson: OOPS! question already answered - 7 units. I was correct. Thank you.
Nov-19-14  Mudphudder: You can call it cheap it whatever you want. But if Anand of his world-class caliber can not hold a draw that is suppose to be that easy, then Carlsen (or any other opponent) will squeeze it out of him and take it. And if that means taking the world championship title with it...then so be it. No world champion should have an excuse not to be able to hold the draw in these scenarios.
Nov-19-14  chesssalamander: Thank you <Sally Simpson> !! That's a cool website! I picked out a random K+R v K+R+N, and it turned out to be a mate in 12.
Nov-19-14  Sally Simpson: chesssalamander,

It is a cool wee thing. That is why I took so long in answering I was off skitteriing about on Red Hot Pawn looking for the link.

Just been messing about with it using Anand's c-pawn (as in the game) as a blocker.

click for larger view

Simple enough. 1.Rg7 Rb8 2.Rh7 Zugzwang.

The link gives 1.Rg7 Re7 and tells you it's mate in 11 by playing a Knight check releasing the stalemate and then taking the Rook.

However place the Rook on a8 then it's a TB draw.

click for larger view

1.Rg7 Ra7.

click for larger view

Messing about keeping the Black c-pawn on the board to remove stalemates. You get instant answers.

click for larger view

Black to play gets mated in 7 moves. Remove the c-pawn.

click for larger view

Black to play draws. 1...Rf6+

So we can now with all confidence state that if Maggie had not taken that c-pawn he would have won. :)

Premium Chessgames Member
  alexmagnus: The longest tablebase-won position with RN vs R is a mate in 37 btw.

click for larger view

with Ra1+ being the only winning move.

Nov-19-14  Sally Simpson: HI alexmagnus:

Mate in 37.

Future POTD for a Monday that one.

Nov-19-14  Albion 1959: Correct me if I am missing something here. Why did Anand play 31. Bxg4 ? He is already a pawn up and has the bishop against the knight, surely if anyone has winning chances it has got to Vishy ? But after 33.b6 he is the one having to fight for the draw. In my mitigation I have to say that I have come home from a long day at work and am a bit tired. I would prefer to work it out in my head, rather than use a powerful P/C search engine If I have missed something, can someone out there enlighten me please ?
Nov-19-14  you vs yourself: <Albion 1959> Black's pawn on d5 can't be defended and Carlsen would have 2 passed pawns on the kingside. These 2 connected pawns are hard to stop with white's rook and knight there to help them advance.
Nov-20-14  sfm: It looks so hopeless for black after 31.Rh5. He is bound to lose his e-pawn. Material will be equal, but what a difference in pawn structure.

White's two passed pawns will decide immediately, it's child's play. I was sure it was game over here. 31.-,Rf8 32.Ke3 makes no difference.

But hey, we give up the bishop and the (already lost) e5-pawn for the two dangerous ones and end with a defensible position.

Simple and brilliant at the same time.

Premium Chessgames Member
  visayanbraindoctor: <sfm: It looks so hopeless for black after 31.Rh5. He is bound to lose his e-pawn. Material will be equal, but what a difference in pawn structure>

I was watching this game unfold. At 28. Ng3 I chalked it up as a Carlsen win. In his usual manner, Carlsen was zooming in on Black's weakest point, the f6 pawn. If Black were to do nothing Carlsen would pile up on this pawn with Nh5, Bg3 and Bh4.

It seems to me Anand saved the game with a tactical shot that simplified into a drawish endgame. I was wondering what 28... Ne5 was all about, but after the piece exchange, I realized that the resourceful Anand might have been planning a piece sac to liquidate White's Kingside pawns. With all the pawns on one side, two pawns for the piece, no permanent pawn weakness, and just two more White pawns to liquidate, Anand had squirmed out (brilliantly I might say) out of a sure loss.

The endgame looks thematic. Black has a kind of semi-fortress. White can't get at the base of Black's pawn chain with his rook and knight alone without allowing Black's King to march up on the a and b files and liquidate the remaining White pawns. Advancing his pawns to attack Black's position and secure the d5 square for his knight also allows Black to exchange off one more pawn with certainty. Even from the starting position, it looks impossible for White to make progress without advancing his own pawns, but that would allow pawn exchanges. Anand conducted this endgame accuately, and avoided any mental collapse.

Nov-20-14  Chessmusings: This game was the inspiration for my longest blog post ever:
Nov-24-14  Albion 1959: To You v Yourself. I see it now and it becomes clear when the mind is not tired and focused better. From a practical point of view Bxg3 was probably Vishy's best chance:
Dec-19-14  1d410: My favorite game of the match
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: Does anybody understand why 21. Nxd1 instead of Rxd1? At first I thought it was because if 21. Rxd1 Nxf3 22. Kxf3 Bg4+ 23. Ke3 Bxd1 but that doesn't really work because after 24. Nxd1, black has given B+N for a R+pawn, which is usually considered a bad trade.
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: A long DRAWN out game.One of the longest title games in history.
Aug-14-17  Bluegrey: <ChessHigherCat> Rd1 is possible but that tactic you pointed out gets black two pawns and should be enough to draw
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: <Bluegrey> Okay, thanks!
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