chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

Anish Giri vs Fabiano Caruana
Tata Steel Masters (2015), Wijk aan Zee NED, rd 3, Jan-12
Queen's Gambit Declined: Harrwitz Attack. Two Knights Defense Blockade Line (D37)  ·  1/2-1/2
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

explore this opening
find similar games 42 more A Giri/Caruana games
PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can get computer analysis by clicking the "ENGINE" button below the game.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 10 OF 10 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-12-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <boz> -- < I know a former 2300 who now plays at 2000. It doesn't bother him but it would me.> Some people just love chess, and don't worry about ratings. One former 2300 that I know has dropped down into the 1900s -- there are no 'floors' in the rating system here -- but he happily carries on. I recall playing Eamon Keogh, an Irish player, now in his 70s, who beat GMs such as Stahlberg in the 1960s. We worked out that we'd dropped about 800 points between us -- me 300, him 500. And we grinned, and played our game ... and he won, damn him.

Next time I play somebody who has dropped 500 points I hope to make it 510...

Jan-12-15  Pedro Fernandez: << Tomlinsky>: I fail to see what the 'right plan' is and think the engines are talking digital cobblers personally.> Me too but we are not GM! Giri is a young man and therefore no experience on this kind of hard endings. According the theory (and As far as I know) Rook + pawns must win vs Bishop + pawns except in exceptional cases. Is this one out of those? I don't know.
Jan-12-15  Tomlinsky: <boz: On the way to the hall for one comeback I found myself wondering, "why am I doing this?">

Because it's a passion that never leaves no matter how many times you divorce it. :)

Jan-12-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <<ManicSquirrel> Very interesting that Stockfish continuously--and erroneously, I would say--gives White a larger plus than either Houdini or Komodo.>

Interesting but not surprising. Stockfish usually (but not always!) evaluates the position slightly more optimistically (for either side) than either Houdini or Komodo.

The chessdom.com site does not indicate what engine versions they are using, whether they are using tablebases or not, and they don't run the analyses very long or reach deep search levels. These are the evaluations they listed for the final position:


click for larger view

Houdini: [+0.42], d=22

Komodo: [+0.79], d=22

Stockfish: [+1.69], d=28

These search levels, IMO, are far too low to reach any definitive conclusions, particularly in endgames.

In contrast, these are the evaluations I got from the final position using 5-piece Gaviota tablebases (Houdini) and 5-piece Syzygy tablebases (Komodo, Stockfish 5 enhanced) and no tablebases (Stockfish 5):

Houdini 4: [+0.99], d=30

Komodo 8: [+0.99], d=30

Stockfish 5: [+1.13], d=40

Stockfish 5 enhanced: [+1.13], d=40

Slightly higher for Stockfish, but not significantly so.

Jan-12-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <boz> There's a song by the late great Vivian Stanshall which begins "What the hell am I doing this for... ?"

It's a sort of theme tune for those of us who go on playing tournaments.

Jan-12-15  Marmot PFL: There is a certain stress level in those events (win or lose) that I'm not sure I want to deal with again. Sometimes it affected me for a day or two later.
Jan-12-15  boz: <Domdaniel: <boz> -- < I know a former 2300 who now plays at 2000. It doesn't bother him but it would me.> Some people just love chess, and don't worry about ratings. One former 2300 that I know has dropped down into the 1900s -- there are no 'floors' in the rating system here -- but he happily carries on. I recall playing Eamon Keogh, an Irish player, now in his 70s, who beat GMs such as Stahlberg in the 1960s. We worked out that we'd dropped about 800 points between us -- me 300, him 500. And we grinned, and played our game ... and he won, damn him. Next time I play somebody who has dropped 500 points I hope to make it 510...>

I play out of love for the game but will admit that I do try to keep my rating in the "normal" ballpark. So far experience is compensating for lack of energy and ambition but for how long, and what I'll do when I start to plummet, I don't know. I should speak to Alex Magnus.

To what do you attribute a player's decline above all other factors?

Jan-12-15  boz: <Marmot PFL: There is a certain stress level in those events (win or lose) that I'm not sure I want to deal with again. Sometimes it affected me for a day or two later.>

I know what you mean. When you go back to the game, you know in advance that there will be pain.

Like falling in love again...

Jan-12-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <Marmot> It still *always* affects me afterwards. In fact, I don't think my sleep patterns have properly recovered from last weekend's tournament, even though I was able to sleep late on Monday. This aspect of things is, if anything, even worse these days -- you get home on Saturday night after two or three games, your brain is still buzzing with chess, sleep is an impossibility, so instead you start feeding the day's games to a computer.

And then you suddenly realize you have about four hours to the next game.

Jan-12-15  boz: Time to get off this live page, I guess.
Jan-12-15  waustad: I have sort of a tournament bucket list. I'd like to play in Gibraltar, in an amateur section of course. Others are the Chess Train and a tournament in New Zealand. Maybe I'll make it to Saint Louis for something this year, as a spectator. My health is a lot better now than it was for the last year or so, so I can be more ambitious.
Jan-12-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <boz> Why does a player decline? Because, I think, age brings a reduced ability to calculate. I'm pretty sure that my judgement and positional ability are now better than they were in the 1980s, but my ability to calculate has fallen back. Just a few days ago I had a game where I had three pawns against a Bishop, a very winnable ending. I *saw* the winning plan - bringing up my King to keep his King away from my queening square - but I just couldn't calculate it all the way through. So I changed plan, made a 'safety' move to avoid any risk of losing... and only drew. So it goes.

There may be a way of adapting your playing style to a more technical, Karpovian mode, avoiding complications. But I have yet to learn how to do this.

Jan-12-15  chessdgc2: I do not believe we "lose" our ability to calculate if we ever have it unless of course, a brain disease occurs. The reason so many people decline is due to interests. With chess, you have to maintain a fight, a will...that's harder to do than calculate
Jan-12-15  boz: <Domdaniel: <boz> Why does a player decline? Because, I think, age brings a reduced ability to calculate. I'm pretty sure that my judgement and positional ability are now better than they were in the 1980s, but my ability to calculate has fallen back. Just a few days ago I had a game where I had three pawns against a Bishop, a very winnable ending. I *saw* the winning plan - bringing up my King to keep his King away from my queening square - but I just couldn't calculate it all the way through. So I changed plan, made a 'safety' move to avoid any risk of losing... and only drew. So it goes. There may be a way of adapting your playing style to a more technical, Karpovian mode, avoiding complications. But I have yet to learn how to do this.>

Interesting. Yeah, I've become more technical, drier if that's possible.

Jan-12-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <chessdgc2> You think so? I'm not sure. Like a lot of people, I stopped playing competitive chess in my mid-20s, and didn't take it up again until my 40s. Those years, I think, are the ones where other 'interests' tend to predominate -- family, work, children, whatever. But by the age of, say, 45 - no longer suffering from the illusion of becoming world champion - one has time to play chess again. And this, I think, is where a decline in calculating ability becomes evident. Of course, it's not necessarily a result of age -- it could equally be caused by the 15-year layoff. I know that many of my chess peers reached ratings of 22-2300, while I was about 2000 when I gave up. Could I have reached that level by continuing? Probably, but I can't know for sure. I just know that it's unlikely *now*.
Jan-12-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <waustad> See you in Gibraltar, one of these years -- it's on my bucket list too.
Jan-12-15  waustad: Maybe I should throw in Bunratty!
Jan-12-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <waustad> Yes, please do ... though I myself haven't played in Bunratty for the last 4 or 5 years. I hope to enter again soon, though. My local tournaments are the Mulcahy Memorial and Cork Open, both in Cork.
Jan-12-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: Say, how long did this game last? Looks like I just missed it (just like WCC G7).
Jan-12-15  boz: <Tomlinsky: <boz: On the way to the hall for one comeback I found myself wondering, "why am I doing this?"> Because it's a passion that never leaves no matter how many times you divorce it. :)>

I'm squarely in the Liz Taylor-Richard Burton tradition.

Jan-12-15  1d410: what an epic draw!
Jan-12-15  ekanth: Gr8 game and gr8 discussion on comming back to chess once again ..yet again..for some of us. Am 39 and in the my peak of career and family with two small kids.but chess has occupied my mind like never before..playing lot of tournaments recently thanks to my very understanding wife..cos sometimes I have to stay away 2/3 days from home..I have been wondering lately why am really doing this?so much compromise on career and family?some times I have to lie in d office cos they never understand the passion of chess..and I have no ambitions of getting 2000 elo also..its just playing chess..co.ing to playing strength and calculation..i have beaten 2000 elo players in tournaments but not consistantly..my overall understanding of chess and the maturity is gr8 but missing out the order of moves in a complex tactical positions and one move blunders are spoiling my all the hard work in the game. Now I think I can never flush out chess out of my system ..its stress buster ..sometimes its a way to escape from reality. Btw I had left tournament chess for 8 years upto 2010.
Jan-12-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  PhilFeeley: <Domdaniel: <waustad> > What about Hastings, or the U.S. "World" Open?
Jan-13-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  tpstar: <ekanth> Congratulations on your family and your career. =)

I'll bet you could reach 2000 with enough practice, but you can still enjoy chess anyway at any level. Better yet, you can introduce your children to chess and help them get better while you also improve. Chess makes for better students, and study makes for better chessplayers.

Best wishes.

Jan-15-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: <Boz> picked that up. I'm addicted. I found it worked at my "advanced age" in a recent tournament as I set more realistic goals. I think one can keep going for some time. The question is whether there is something more creative or interesting to do. I read a lot and also work around my house and so on. I also write. But chess is still fascinating for me, even if it is just playing over old master games etc or solving puzzles if I can....
Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 10)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 10 OF 10 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, is totally anonymous, and 100% free—plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, profane, raunchy, or disgusting language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate or nonsense posts.
  3. No malicious personal attacks, including cyber stalking, systematic antagonism, or gratuitous name-calling of any member Iincludinfgall Admin and Owners or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. If you think someone is an idiot, then provide evidence that their reasoning is invalid and/or idiotic, instead of just calling them an idiot. It's a subtle but important distinction, even in political discussions.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No malicious posting of or linking to personal, private, and/or negative information (aka "doxing" or "doxxing") about any member, (including all Admin and Owners) or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. This includes all media: text, images, video, audio, or otherwise. Such actions will result in severe sanctions for any violators.
  6. NO TROLLING. Admin and Owners know it when they see it, and sanctions for any trolls will be significant.
  7. Any off-topic posts which distract from the primary topic of discussion are subject to removal.
  8. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by Moderators is expressly prohibited.
  9. The use of "sock puppet" accounts in an attempt to undermine any side of a debate—or to create a false impression of consensus or support—is prohibited.
  10. All decisions with respect to deleting posts, and any subsequent discipline, are final, and occur at the sole discretion of the Moderators, Admin, and Owners.
  11. Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a Moderator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors. All Moderator actions taken are at the sole discretion of the Admin and Owners—who will strive to act fairly and consistently at all times.
Spot an error? Please submit a correction slip and help us eliminate database mistakes!
This game is type: CLASSICAL (Disagree? Please submit a correction slip.)

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
The QGD/Slav/Semi-Slav
by Zhbugnoimt
The QGD/Slav/Semi-Slav by Zhbugnoimt
by fredthebear
46d_R:B
by whiteshark
--> R:B
from 48e_QR vs QB + pawns by whiteshark


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us
Copyright 2001-2019, Chessgames Services LLC