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Jon Ludvig Hammer vs Veselin Topalov
Norway Chess (2015), Stavanger NOR, rd 5, Jun-21
Slav Defense: Quiet Variation. Schallopp Defense (D12)  ·  0-1
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 8 OF 8 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jun-21-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  cornflake: well great for Topa to win this end game thanks to JLH mishandling the endgame.
Jun-21-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <cornflake> After 74.Kc6 if there is a tablebase win (you would need access to the 7-piece Lomonosov tablebases), it is for Black, not White. You can see this clearly after 74...Ke6, when Black can pick up both the White k-side pawns after ...Kf5. And if 75.Kb7 then Black simply gives up his bishop by, say, 75...Bf2 75.a6 Bxa7 76.Kxa7 Kf5 and Black is too far away to prevent the loss of both k-side pawns and Black's using his king to escort his g-pawn to its queening square.

Hammer probably resigned because he realized that 74.Kc6 allowed this scenario.

Jun-21-15  sfm: The most incredible blunder I have seen for a veeeery long time. The position before Kd5-c6 is not even a Monday puzzle. Topaluck appears unstoppable.
Jun-21-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  cornflake: <AylerKupp: <cornflake> After 74.Kc6 if there is a tablebase win (you would need access to the 7-piece Lomonosov tablebases), it is for Black, not White. You can see this clearly after 74...Ke6, when Black can pick up both the White k-side pawns after ...Kf5. And if 75.Kb7 then Black simply gives up his bishop by, say, 75...Bf2 75.a6 Bxa7 76.Kxa7 Kf5 and Black is too far away to prevent the loss of both k-side pawns and Black's using his king to escort his g-pawn to its queening square. Hammer probably resigned because he realized that 74.Kc6 allowed this scenario.>

I didn't think there was a win for white after Kc6 that's why I wanted to see the table base win. Most of the reasoning you posted I had already seen. that's why I was skeptical about a table base win for white after Kc6. Still, with the K on d5 I still can't believe JLH played the horrible Kc6?? It looks like 73.Kd5 ke7 75 f5 exf5 76.Ke5 (inteding Kxf5) draws easily for white. what a blunder.

Jun-21-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  cornflake: I'm still in disbelief at this horrible move Kc6??. how could a GM miss the obvious 74 f5 (=)? Loss of objectivity by JLH perhaps?
Jun-21-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  cornflake: <Tomlinsky: Topalov should get online and buy a few Euro Lottery tickets asap.>

Well Topa certainly has been getting some gift points from the other players. First the game from Carlsen when he had a lost position, and now this game when he had a dead drawn postion.

Jun-21-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: Topa pipped Hammer to the post. I'd guess that 74.Kc6 was a refex to 73...Ke7, missing its devilish intention...
Jun-22-15  sfm: Tough to be Norwegian these days. The national team is in the bottom of the group after two own goals. After grave chocks performance will often suffer.
But they will soon be back.
Jun-22-15  sfm: Blackouts.
They just happen. The few seconds you are simply not yourself.

Hammer finds all these hard moves throughout the game, in the most complicated positions, something only a top GM could ever dream of.

It is nearly 2 decades ago that you could ever hope that Hammer in a blitz game, with 1 second left, would play 74.Kc6.

I find it weird that Topalov even played 73.-,Ke7 and did not offer a draw. He would have taken a 1:1000 bet that Hammer would play 74.f5. Even 74.Ke5 draws easily.

In the match on Island in 72 there was some trouble about a Russian player interested in parapsychology that Fischer suspected of trying influence his thoughts.

But it was not just Fisher being mad, at least according to http://www.hotgossip.co.uk/February...
"One fascinating part of the book tells how the Soviets thought their champion was the victim of dirty tricks, and brought in the KGB. One theory was that psychological warfare or parapsychological warfare was being used. Two top Soviet psychiatrists looked for evidence of anything, including psychic manipulation, that might explain the poor performance of Spassky."

If this, and Carlsen's ferfeit, had happened, who would not have believed that this indeed would have been the best reason for these unexplainable events?

But the mind is perfectly capable of screwing up things on its own.

When I was young we were instructed to sit on our hands. literally, to prevent blunders by making a move in a blackout moment or as some nervous reaction. The time needed to get the hands free would give your brain that extra time.

I did just that, and yes, it saved me from many blunders.

Googling for 'chess player sit on your hands' showed that yes, it is a common piece of advice.

Some scuba diving professionals have told me, that the divers most likely to have accidents are not the newcomers, who adhere strictly to the taught rules, but the experienced ones that begin to regard them with more flexibility.

If Hammer was ever told to sit on his hands, we have just such a case.

Jun-22-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: Afterwards Veselin Topalov gave his only explanation:

<"The reason he made the mistake is that he thought I played 73…Bb8. It was just a fingerfehler.">

http://chess24.com/en/read/news/nor... scroll down

Jun-22-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Honza Cervenka: JLH's 74.Kc6?? reminds me Taimanov's 81...Ke4?? from Fischer vs Taimanov, 1971. It's hard to believe that it could have happened but apparently even grandmasters are not immune from absolute mental black-outs.
Jun-22-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  SirRuthless: My 15 year old cousin found f5 instantly when I emailed him the position after 73...Ke7. He is a class B player.
Jun-22-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  visayanbraindoctor: This is what I call 'Forgot my opponent can makes moves' mistake. You have a planned move or series of moves, but then you completely forget that your opponent can also makes moves. So you automatically begin your series of moves as though your opponent isn't making any. When he moved 73. Kd5 Hammer was already planning on Kc6, Kb7, Kxa7, and momentarily 'forgot' that Topalov could also make moves.

Like many kinds of blunders it usually happens because of mental fatigue. It has happened to me, so I think I understand the psychology of it. When I was going to college, I sometimes entered tournaments that began late afternoon or early evening. Bad idea. After attending classes the whole day, trying to play in a tournament right after your last class discombobulates your game. One time I had a completely winning position and was about to embark on a series of Queen checks that would end in a forced mate. In desperation, my opponent made a nuisance check with his own Queen. I was so tired that I forgot he could also check me, and I immediately moved my Queen to check his King. My opponent looked at me in surprise and merely pointed out his Queen, which was checking my King. As it happened I had a legal move with my Queen left, which was to interpose itself on an undefended square in order to intercept my opponent's Queen check. Touch move. I had to move my Queen, and he simply took it, thank you very much. I resigned immediately after.

Something like this may have happened in this game.

Jun-22-15  dumbgai: 74. Kc6!! is a move that only a player of Hammer's caliber could find in this tournament.
Jun-22-15  Catholic Bishop: All this speculation is laughable.
The obvious reason for not playing f5 is that Hammer thought he had winning chances. If he was going for a dead draw, f5 would have been a no brainer.

so YES any 1400 player would find f5 when told 'white to move and draw'. The GM does not simply assume a draw when given that position.

Jun-22-15  dumbgai: <Catholic Bishop> That's some pretty funny logic. A weak 1400 player would only manage to draw with 74. f5??, whereas the 2677-rated Hammer, with all his GM knowledge, was able to see deeper and find the winning 74. Kc6!!

Apparently some GMs are so strong that they can win by losing.

Jun-22-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  kingscrusher: The paradoxical effect of finding blunders when "simple chess" moves also occurs when given more time on the clock.

I have lost count of the number of longer OTB time control games, I would have played better if it had been a 5 minute game. The time given to a player can mean a lot more interesting and potentially dangerous "non-simple" possibilities are being explored. Which can be a double-edged thing indeed!

"Simple chess" is a mantra of a player like Capablanca - where he rarely made use of speculative resources or ideas.

Jun-22-15  MarkFinan: I was watching some of your videos the other week <kingscrusher> and wondered if you ever found out if that guy called Blondie on the ICC was Carlsen, and if not, who? He had a 2800+ rating if I remember rightly.
Jun-22-15  Conrad93: Another game where Topalov gets away with playing crap.

Can we call it the Nakamura Effect?

Jun-22-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  SteinitzLives: I think the mindless troll posts by Conrad, observed with disdain and deep pity by so many throughout the CG site, as he displays a level of chess knowledge that could not fill a small thimble, should be called "the Conrad effect".

His posts serve as a dull beacon of expressed neediness, pathetic in their begging desire for attention. My charity is all that drove this post.

Jun-22-15  Conrad93: <His posts serve as a dull beacon of expressed neediness, pathetic in their begging desire for attention. My charity is all that drove this post.>

If your aim was to sound pretentious, you've accomplished your task.

Jun-22-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  SteinitzLives: One will always seem pretentious when pointing out the truth to the brazenly ignorant.
Jun-24-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <SteinitzLives: One will always seem pretentious when pointing out the truth to the brazenly ignorant.>

Most especially one who marches through life waving his dearly won nescience about with such pride.

<Tomlinsky: Topalov should get online and buy a few Euro Lottery tickets asap.>

lmao

This run is putting to shame what went at St Louis last year.

Doesn't stop the True Believers who take this to mean Topalov will again play for the title.

Jun-24-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  thegoodanarchist: < perfidious: <SteinitzLives: One will always seem pretentious when pointing out the truth to the brazenly ignorant.>

Most especially one who marches through life waving his dearly won nescience about with such pride.>

Nescience, huh? Been using your on line thesaurus again, and looking to prove it?

One does not "win" nescience, unless in an alcohol consumption contest, or other such brain cell killing activites, such as catching sledgehammers with one's skull.

But the more important issue is, were you trying to <agree> with <SteinitzLives> in the most obscure manner possible?

Because saying 'marching "through life waving his dearly won nescience about with such pride" ' could be considered an attempt to express "brazenly ignorant" in a more unclear way.

Jun-25-15  Conrad93: <One will always seem pretentious when pointing out the truth to the brazenly ignorant.>

It has nothing to do with ignorance. You are a little too desperate to get the last word.

I guess chess is full of narcissists.

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