chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

(If you register a free account you won't see all these ads!)
Magnus Carlsen vs Anish Giri
Bilbao (2016), Bilbao ESP, rd 9, Jul-22
Queen Pawn Game: Sarratt Attack (D00)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

Click Here to play Guess-the-Move
Given 10 times; par: 65 [what's this?]

NOTE: You are using our new chess viewer, "Olga." For more info see the Olga Quickstart Guide. You can switch back to the old viewer (pgn4web) from the pulldown menu below. If you have questions or suggestions see our Olga chessforum.

explore this opening
find similar games 32 more Carlsen/A Giri games
PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can get computer analysis by clicking the "ENGINE" button below the game.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 9 OF 9 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jul-23-16  not not: after pawn went c4, d5 point became weak - sooner or later white play e4, exchange and pray on d5;

perhaps it is not losing per se, but the main question is: how is black going to create counterplay? exchanging c pawn and fighting for c-file was a plan; maybe not great, but a plan

computer says it is equal, but computer does not understand that sitting passively and fighting to keep things equal is not the same as having counterattack or dynamic chances to keep things equal

equal does not equal equal, at least from human point of view

Jul-23-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  lost in space: GM Jan Gustafsson analyze the game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrf...

He shows that it was not a good idea to take the pawn on h4. Interesting stuff.

Jul-23-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <not not: after pawn went c4, d5 point became weak - sooner or later white play e4, exchange and pray on d5;>

Notice, though, that Carlsen never did play e4, probably because he thought it wasn't very promising. Black can take on e4 himself, and if ed ed the pawn on d5 isn't very weak anyway. Eventually Giri played ...f5 which made the question moot.

<perhaps it is not losing per se, but the main question is: how is black going to create counterplay? exchanging c pawn and fighting for c-file was a plan; maybe not great, but a plan

computer says it is equal, but computer does not understand that sitting passively and fighting to keep things equal is not the same as having counterattack or dynamic chances to keep things equal>

Carlsen had very little going on after ...c4; Ne5 Nxe5 dxe5 was a fairly risky way to create some kingside pressure. Black had lots of ways to create counterplay after that, including pressuring the pawn on e5, playing ...Nc5-e4, playing ...c3 at some point (which he did, but followed up inaccurately).

<ajile>, you think ...c4 is always a mistake, but here it wasn't.

<lost in space> I wouldn't agree that Gustafsson shows that taking the pawn on h4 is a bad idea. He shows that White gets some pressure, but enough? I am not sure.

Really impressed by Carlsen's creativity and sheer determination, managing to create an attack and a complicated, difficult (though not necessarily superior!) position out of a nothing opening. As many times as he's done it, it never ceases to amaze. Then after they both missed c4-c5, he kept probing and pushing and Giri finally collapsed. This game is Exhibit A for why, going into the last round, Carlsen has four wins and the rest of the field has three.

Jul-23-16  rogge: Gustafsson:

<Do you know who had a plus score against Garry Kasparov? Joel Lautier. Have you heard of Joel Lautier recently? Neither have I! Probably the people he's doing business with, whatever he's doing, have, but that's not a way to play chess, Anish. You've got to try and win tournaments, not define yourself by drawing against Magnus Carlsen. It's just making me sad. What you should do is just resign this game now, get this never losing to the World Champion out of the way and then have a fresh start. So resign - don't even play b5, no-one cares about your score against Magnus anymore!> :)

Jul-23-16  Atking: Well this should not go too far. Everybody can lost to Carlsen. No shame about. Carlsen is incredibly strong. Anish is still young and one of the best in the world. He still have time to change his approach and challenge the very top.
Jul-23-16  Oxnard: <change his approach>

i.e. stop being a drawmaster

Jul-23-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: <Eyal><Giri finally cracked under the pressure with 37...Ra8??, a rather natural time-trouble blunder (instinctively one wants to bring the rook back to the defense of the king).> Good assessment. Instead of 37...Ra8?? the computer pick 37...f4 38. Nf5 Qb6+ 39. Bd4 Qa5 40. Qxa5 Rxa5 appears to offer practical drawing chances.

Earlier, instead of 30..Qxh5?!, 30..Qb7 = looks to hold it level.

The final position is also instructive. Black's best try is 45...Qxe5 (diagram below)


click for larger view

when White forces a winning Knight Fork in seven moves after 46. Qf8+ Ke6 47. Qe8+ Kd6 (47... Kf5 48. Qf7+ Qf6 49. Qxf6#) 48. Qb8+ Ke6 49. Nf8+ Kf5 ( 49... Kf6 50. Nd7+) 50. Qb1+ Kg5 (diagram below)


click for larger view

51. f4+! (not 51. Qxa2? Qe1+ 52. Kh2 Qh4 + =) 51...Qxf4 52. Ne6+ .

P.S.: When I first saw the final position I wasn't sure why Black resigned. After analyzing it, I went over the resigned position with my three young grandsons ages 5, 7 and 10. They found it instructive and challenging as it combines the Deflection, Knight fork, Pawn fork and Queen fork tactics along with a mate-threat.

Jul-24-16  gokusano: Resignation is not the best option here. Giri should have played on in order to give the viewers their satisfaction. What a chicken!
Jul-24-16  ninja warrior: if 45...Qxe5 at the end i'd have played 46.Ng5+, which checkmates or wins the queen in every variation, including the very pretty reloader continuation 46...Kg7 47.Qd7+ Kf6 48.Nh7# & knight fork possibility 47...Kh6 Nf7+.
Jul-24-16  sabitsingson: Well this should not go too far. Everybody can lost to Carlsen. No shame about. Carlsen is incredibly strong. Anish is still young and one of the best in the world. He still have time to change his approach and challenge the very top.

By changing his approach, that will mean more losses than wins. Look, he is now tied 9-10 in the live rating, whereas before, he was in the top 5.

Jul-25-16  kabbygov: Patzer2 also 50. g4+ wins
Jul-25-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: <patzer2: Earlier, instead of 30..Qxh5?!, 30..Qb7 = looks to hold it level>

True - but there was a very good reason to avoid 30...Qb7; it seems to lose immediately to 31.Nxf5:


click for larger view

and in order to realize that it actually doesn't lose you have to find the super-ingenious resource 31...Nxf3+!! 32.gxf3 Bxf4 33.exf4 Rf8!! and White can't keep everything together.

Jul-25-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  lost in space: <<keypusher> <lost in space> I wouldn't agree that Gustafsson shows that taking the pawn on h4 is a bad idea. He shows that White gets some pressure, but enough? I am not sure.>

Yes, I should have said that it was not a good idea practically in an OTB game with limed time and against the WC.

Jul-25-16  ajile: <lost in space: <<ajile> (snip) The other Black positional mistake is playing ..c4. After ..c4 Black's pressure on d4 is gone and White can play for e4 undermining the pawn chain. These are pretty basic positional ideas (snip).>

Not sure about that. The position after black played c4 was not worse for Black. After 11...c4 12. Qe2 b5 the position is even, no advantage white what so ever.>

Well White didn't play for e4 so yes he didn't benefit from my strategy in this game. But it's common knowledge that in the Colle System for example that Black playing c5-c4 is bad because of what I stated above. White just keeps piling up on e4 until he makes this break. And after that Black's q-side pawn structure crumbles. Some Black players might respond that Black is getting counterplay if he gets in b5 and a5 but in the vast majority of cases White's play in the center and k-side comes first and is more important.

This game was still won by White because it was Carlsen and he outplayed his opponent from an equal opening. Nothing wrong with this of course but IMO playing for e4 after Black releases the tension with ..c4 is the optimal choice.

Jul-26-16  ninja warrior: love that avatar agile... it's a tfc 1.5 engy, right?
Jul-26-16  ajile: <ninja warrior: love that avatar agile... it's a tfc 1.5 engy, right?>

Sho is. Did you play in the glory years?

Jul-26-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: https://www.chess.com/video/player/...
Jul-27-16  ninja warrior: yup... still my favorite fps ever made. engy was the best class too, methinks (especially with the later addition of transporters!)

i appreciate how you handle conflict, ajile... it's refreshing to see disagreements discussed in a respectful manner here. hope that you're an inspiration to some of the more hot-tempered individuals that frequent this site.

i too was surprised that carlsen didn't go in for e4 at all, but pleasantly enough the remainder of the game was a real treat to watch!

Jul-27-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <Well White didn't play for e4 so yes he didn't benefit from my strategy in this game. >

<ajile> What do you think is more likely? The world champion (and his extremely strong opponent) missed a simple plan presented in all the beginner strategy books? Or <...c4 is always bad> is an oversimplification?

Strong players (including GMs) watching the game thought ...c4 was a good move. In fact some were querying a4-a5 because they thought ...c4 was such a good answer to it.

Most of us learn pretty early in our chess career that ...c4 has drawbacks. Hopefully it's not the last thing we learn.

Jul-27-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  moronovich: In general the c-4 push for black is not good in the London/Colle opening.Mainly because the pressure on d4 is gone.But that is in general.So for those who want to improve:Try to understand the exceptions(and play them too,sometimes:).Otherwise mediocracy will prevail.Or chess may even be played out,in worst case scenario.

So good luck with our improvements and as such a little tribute to <Keypushers> post above.

Jul-27-16  ajile: <ninja warrior: yup... still my favorite fps ever made. engy was the best class too, methinks (especially with the later addition of transporters!)

i appreciate how you handle conflict, ajile... it's refreshing to see disagreements discussed in a respectful manner here. hope that you're an inspiration to some of the more hot-tempered individuals that frequent this site.

i too was surprised that carlsen didn't go in for e4 at all, but pleasantly enough the remainder of the game was a real treat to watch!>

Thanks for the post and kind words. I hope someday future players will get the opportunity to play a game like tfc again with mega leagues and tournaments. But IMO this could only happen if developers find a foolproof method to stop the hackers. I think this (not dated graphics) was the real reason tfc died. You simply can't go to the next level of competition with hackers present. It's also sad that these people think it's funny and OK to ruin games that others worked hard to get better at with hours and hours of practice. There is a special place in hell for these individuals and they too will be cheated at some point in the future. What goes around comes around and karma IS REAL.

Jul-27-16  ajile: <keypusher: <Well White didn't play for e4 so yes he didn't benefit from my strategy in this game. >

<ajile> What do you think is more likely? The world champion (and his extremely strong opponent) missed a simple plan presented in all the beginner strategy books? Or <...c4 is always bad> is an oversimplification?

Strong players (including GMs) watching the game thought ...c4 was a good move. In fact some were querying a4-a5 because they thought ...c4 was such a good answer to it.

Most of us learn pretty early in our chess career that ...c4 has drawbacks. Hopefully it's not the last thing we learn.>

I don't think I said it's ALWAYS 100% bad to push c5-c4 but most of the time it is. It depends also of course what other factors are present in the position. For example it's known that in double stonewall openings the side that can advance their c pawn to the other side's 4th rank WILL have an advantage. In other words in symmetrical stonewall positions with Black pawns at d5-e6-f5 and White pawns at d4-e3-f4. But these openings are rather rare from what I've seen. Also there is an opening in the QGD where White can get away with c4-c5 also but after Black has played ..a6. But I'm not an expert on why this works since I rarely play this opening. Perhaps it is because Black has lost a tempo on ..a5 and he is already down a tempo by virtue of being Black.

Sep-15-16  dm1991: One of those signature Carlsen <gambling chess> wins. Play a rather dry, static position non-static way by doubling your pawns, starting a shaky kingside pressure and sac-ing a pawn for unsure compensation hoping that your mostly preparation heavy opponent will be confused, which ultimately worked.

At the time Giri was on a slump, losing his previous two games against So and Wei Yi (in Berling endgame). It's interesting that he decided for a more challenging continuation with <7... Be7> than Bd6 but then Carlsen would propably play Bg3 as in this game: Carlsen vs E Ghaem Maghami, 2016

The moves i would like to emphasize are:

<11... c4>. Posters above argue about this quite commitial move. In old books it would propably be signed as a positional mistake but nowadays chess is much more relying on nuances and Elite GMs can get away with such "antipositional" stuff (Anand vs Carlsen, 2013). I guess it maybe depends on someone's playing style. I'm a rather unorthodox player so i don't really mind playing c4. Besides it cuts off potential Qb5 probing weak queenside light squares.

<15. dxe5>, taking with the pawn rather than bishop. Positives: it creates an outpost on d4 for the Nd2 and weakens, kingside a bit by pushing out Nf6 and keeps the overall pressure on black's game. Negatives: gives up the queenside for black, N/Bc5 can be very strong for black. Alternatives: Bxe5 which feels rather toothless. There is a possible break on e4 but i'm not sure if there will be enough life in the position to play for anything.

<17. h4>, a pawn sac going with <17... Rxa1 18. Rxa1 Bxh4 19. Bh6 g6 20. Nf3 Be7 21. Ra7> with white pieces trying to reach the opposite king. I don't know how to evaluate this attack, it does look quite dangerous.

<17... f5>, rather extreme looking counter. Maybe Nc5 was a bit better.

<18. Qh3>, not <18. exf6 Bxf6 19. Bg5>. Maybe Carlsen didn't want to exchange too many pieces. Besides the kingside pressure would be practically gone without this bishop. Qh3 does prepare an eventual g4 break and keeps the h4 pawn on offer.

Carlsen needed only 5 moves to create a mess with all results possible from a dry, static opening position while giving Giri headaches with confusing moves and h4 offer which resulted in him burning time.

<19... c3>, i don't like this push at all. It simplifies the queenside. I would rather try to push b5 and play Nc5 to keep the pressure, better position my pieces and decide on the actions later.

<37. Qd2>. There's no need to force things with Nxf5 in opponents time trouble as it could give him a counterplay with Ra2+. Still Giri should see, why Ra8 doesn't work (a rather easy fork on d5).

I consider this game one of the most interesting of 2016. It's a lesson on how to keep winning chances in a static position with an uncompromising, bold and commiting play.

Sep-17-16  SpiritedReposte: I hate when you're attacking with white and black plays an effective ...f5.
Jul-12-17  Saniyat24: 43.Nf7...!
Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 9)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 9 OF 9 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, totally anonymous, and 100% free--plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, or duplicating posts.
  3. No personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No posting personal information of members.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform an administrator.


NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, you might try the Kibitzer's Café.
Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors.
Spot an error? Please submit a correction slip and help us eliminate database mistakes!
This game is type: CLASSICAL (Disagree? Please submit a correction slip.)

Featured in the Following Game Collections [what is this?]
kambur's favorite games
by kambur
11... c4
from 59_Fixit with ..c4! - the Stockholm/Lima Syndrom by whiteshark
Best Games of 2016
by ALL
Magnus finally beats Giri
from Memento by DrDrej
98_A46+A48+D02 ... L O N D O N SYSTEM !!!
by yiotta
P-Q4 Sarratt Attk Copycat BxBd3 (D00) 1-0 Go forward
from Liberty Valance Deserved to be Shot by fredthebear
Best of 2016
by Chnebelgrind
Sarratt Attk Copycat BxBd3 (D00) 1-0 Go forward
from London System/Sarratt Attack Collections Combine by fredthebear
P-Q4 Sarratt Attk Copycat BxBd3 (D00) 1-0 Go forward
from Losker's NY System & Baltic Def for Fredthebear by fredthebear
P-Q4 Sarratt Attk Copycat BxBd3 (D00) 1-0 Go forward
from London Bridges Fredthebear Crossed by fredthebear
rodmalone's favorite games carlsen
by rodmalone
Sarratt Attack Copycat BxBd3 (D00) 1-0 Go forward
from Carlsen Cranks Up Fredthebear by fredthebear
London System
by ALL
The Champ at his best!
from Having Fun With the London & Colle Systems by yiotta
98_A46+A48+D02 ... L O N D O N SYSTEM !!!
by whiteshark
Fighting Chess with Magnus Carlsen
by jakaiden
[London] Nd2,a4-a5
from Carlsen's Unusual Openings by theidiot117
studiare scacchi con Magnus Carlsen
by mariofrisini
Carlsen just beats up the drawmaster!
from Carlsen games by Mudphudder


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us
Copyright 2001-2017, Chessgames Services LLC