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Magnus Carlsen vs Maxime Vachier-Lagrave
Your Next Move (Blitz) (2017) (blitz), Leuven BEL, rd 12, Jul-02
English Opening: King's English Variation. General (A20)  ·  1-0


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Kibitzer's Corner
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Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: I wonder if <Carlsen's manouvre <>> 25. <Ke2> 26. <Rh1> 27. <Kf1> and 29. <Rg1> has been played before?
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: GM <Jan Gustafsson> takes us through one of the <most entertaining Blitz>* games he has seen in a while:
Jul-04-17  WorstPlayerEver: <keypusher>

Thanks for pointing out. But the guy was only teasing. It's obvious there's a pawn at f6. It's a part of this Maginot line. Sensitive oh la la

Jul-04-17  WorstPlayerEver: PS my previous posted comments look kind of sloppy, I see. Excusez moi. Actually I was very busy. And since English is not my native, I mutilated some symbols here and there.
Premium Chessgames Member
  yiotta: This game has computer DNA all over it, I think. Quite a blockade, I'm amazed MVL lasted as long as he did.
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <Jul-04-17 yiotta: This game has computer DNA all over it, I think. Quite a blockade, I'm amazed MVL lasted as long as he did.>

I have to say, I would be stunned if that were true about the computer. Carlsen, as is his wont, burned through a lot of time in the opening. If I'm seeing this correctly, he spent over a minute on Rxg7, leaving him at 1:20. He had six seconds left after 32.Qxe4. His clock stayed at six seconds for the rest of the game. Video below.

Jul-04-17  WorstPlayerEver: : If it was a engine game.. then why didn't play Maxime 4... h6...? Because that's the move -correct- which a normal person would play. The whole "idea" Nf6-g8 doesn't look like development to me. Obviously Maxime knows 4... h6 is the right move, otherwise he would not be a top player.

Let me try to put it another way... why do you think they HAVE to get into blitz&rapid? A top sportsman makes probably more money on a day than these intelligent (...) guys in a year. On average. The plain truthz, bozos!

PS and why does this site -which is supposed to be a docu site- doesn't have an editor which -let's say- could live up to 1940?

Jul-04-17  john barleycorn: here is a game with 4....h6 played

R Rapport vs Aronian, 2014

Jul-05-17  WorstPlayerEver: <john barleycorn>

Thanks. Well, maybe Maxime missed 12. e4 in his preparation. 4... Bb4 doesn't seem to be an inferior move to me. As I stated before. However, it became the cornerstone of Black's trouble in this game. Which is peculiar; Maxime was still playing with So for second place at the time this game was played.

Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <worst player ever>

<worst player ever>

4....h6 isn't obviously correct to me, or to this guy: Short vs S Docx, 2014. MVL had a superior position up until 19....Qxg7, so maybe he didn't play the opening so badly? Finally, there is no way in hell either one of them was still in prep at move 12. Carlsen burned about a minute on 7.d4.

How much time do you think top grandmasters spend on openings like this?

Jul-05-17  WorstPlayerEver: PS at glance it seems Magnus was looking at 7. h4 -the naturel move- as well. At least; that is what Stockfish evaluates. About equal.
Jul-05-17  WorstPlayerEver: <How much time do you think top grandmasters spend on openings like this?>


Well, I don't know. What I do know though, is that by the time Maxime was thinking about his 4th move, he already had to deal with more than 7 billion possible variations. In theory.

7288512000 to be more precise. So what do you think? Obviously my 'Maxime played sound etc." in my first comment was meant ironically. As this game itself.

I suppose if Magnus can play this, then anyone can play this. After all, he's the champ.

Jul-05-17  WorstPlayerEver: PS ok.

Let's try to take a look at this in a more human perspective.

Let's say on average an opening move has 6 relevant choices. Maybe .1 more. After the 7th move (the 4th from White) Black still has to deal with about 300,000 possible variations.

Logically about 100,000 could be as relevant as this one. Take your pick. I am speaking softly; probably more than less variations as it comes to my counting. In comparison with the variation in the game.

Jul-05-17  john barleycorn: <WorstPlayerEver: ...

7288512000 to be more precise. So what do you think? ...>

Thinking where did you pull that number?

Jul-05-17  Miguel Medina: Nice ! ...
Jul-05-17  WorstPlayerEver: <john barleycorn>

20 c4 20 e5 22 e3 30 Nf6 29 Nc3 28 Nc6 34 g4

Jul-05-17  john barleycorn: ok, <WorstPlayerEver> you were talking about the numbers of ways to get to that position not starting from it.
Jul-05-17  WorstPlayerEver: PS I was kind of wrong. In reality for this variation (database):

20 19 -Nh6- 12 -etc.- 12 11 13 14 =

109,549,440 variations.

I think this is a common misunderstanding. Which lead to Fischerandom etc. How can there be so many possible variations before Black's 4th move, while there are only a few million games in the database? With exactly the same tree of moves. In total.

One would expect at least so many games (as mentioned in the database tree) as a multiplication of the tree moves would suggest (as done above). Nothing is less true, however.

Obviously it is not so hard to understand why I am the only one who notices such things; it's darn lonely at the top.

Amyway, it's a mathematical phenomenom.

Nota bene, if I would start with any other move than c4, then the tree+multiplication is different for each other move.

Jul-05-17  WorstPlayerEver: <john barleycorn>

Sorry, you are right lol before the 4th move from Black.

Jul-05-17  WorstPlayerEver: PS it's still about 100M/7B=1:70.

So one has to deal with about 1.5% of all possible variations after 1. c4

Whether one likes it or not ☺

Jul-05-17  WorstPlayerEver: PS before Black's 4th move. That is.
Jul-05-17  WorstPlayerEver: PPS ok obviously they know how to play the first two moves: 1. c4 e5

But then again (I am kind of astonished now by my intuition) when 109,549,440:380 (first two moves)=


Is that a nice figure or is that a nice figure? About 6exp7

Jul-05-17  WorstPlayerEver: Before 1. c4, excusez.
Aug-14-17  Cheapo by the Dozen: My thought was much like the third comment in the thread -- this feels like something from the 19th Century, especially at the point White was offering a rook by way of a skewer on his own first rank.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Joshka: 4...h6 holds everything up I believe. Short even played 4.g4 prior to Magnus!!
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