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Magnus Carlsen vs Alexey Dreev
World Cup (2017), Tbilisi GEO, rd 2, Sep-07
Sicilian Defense: Canal Attack (B51)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Sep-07-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  beenthere240: The sequence 17...d3 followed by 18...d4 looked very creative at the time. It has been preceded by a very lengthy think. It looked as if Black would be able to win the e5 pawn. However, after another lengthy think, Dreev uncorked a wild attack on the g2 pawn and collapsed. The engines seemed to think that 23...Rxd4 was better than ...Nf3 and predicted that Black could regain the exchange.

I'm also with <keypusher> Carlsen was not rope-a-doping. He was after Dreev from move 1. No sitting back in this game.

Sep-07-17  1971: "sitting back" is a very subtle strategem. A lot of teams the threat of it is stronger than the execution (wink), Dreev knew what was coming and lashed out very early before it could happen. The threat was there though, and would have came had Dreev played slower.
Sep-07-17  1971: Sorry, I took a contentious tone there.

After 23, Nhf3, White says ok, I've improved by position with Qg3 and I'm bringing my knight back into the game.

What should black do?

23...Ng6 and we start seeing calm, strengthening moves again. White will reinforce his center and sit back and wait for mistakes.

Sep-07-17  1971: Black will surely attempt to consolidate his kingside which is most likely the bigger threat. Fantastic opening play from MC.
Sep-07-17  1971: 17. Ne2 is already the "sit back" threat.
17...d3 was saying must create activity at all costs.
Sep-07-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: when the music stopped, someone was left without a chair.
Sep-07-17  PJs Studio: 30.Kh1!! Wham! Carlsen played flawlessly. As a tactical player I should study his games to better my steamroller instead of getting into a slugfest. Simple and lethal.
Sep-07-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Marmot PFL: The exchange sac wasn't bad for black but he chickened out - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSF...
Sep-07-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  beenthere240: 17. Ne2 was not a "sit back" threat - IMO at least. It was a very accurate way to continue to overprotect the e5 pawn and still occupy the d4 square. The knee jerk 17. Nxd4 isn't terrible. It just isn't as good.
Sep-07-17  1971: You're not understanding what I'm saying.
Sep-07-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  beenthere240: I recommend the link that Marmot posted above. Daniel King does a good job. Curiously, Stockfish was recommending 13....c4 as a break instead of 13...d5. Certainly 13...c4 couldn't have been worse than 13...d5. The e5 pawn controlled much of the remaining game.

Carlsen seemed to have a clear strategy which he followed throughout. In contrast Dreev vacillated, ultimately losing his nerve with 23...Nxf3.

Sep-07-17  1971: I meant with 17. Ne2 Carlsen threatens to recapture with the other knight and have a lock on the position from which he can "sit-back", strengthen his position and wait for mistakes.

Dreev was right to go for complications, but if those are your 2 choices, something has already gone wrong.

Sep-07-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <Sep-07-17 1971: I meant with 17. Ne2 Carlsen threatens to recapture with the other knight and have a lock on the position from which he can "sit-back", strengthen his position and wait for mistakes. Dreev was right to go for complications, but if those are your 2 choices, something has already gone wrong.>

Hard to exaggerate how clueless you are being here, 1971. Carlsen is completely in control at move 17l, because (rather than wait for his opponent to make a mistake) he's played aggressively and gotten a clamp. He already had a huge advantage at the point Dreev began sacrificing.

Rather than submit, Dreev lashes out, but winds up losing quicker.

We have a bunch of top GMs going to rapids now because they hoped their opponents would make a mistake, but if not the stronger players would win in quickplay. But MC wasn't satisfied with that, he decided he wanted to win in classical. And he has. How many others have won four straight games at classical controls?

I get it, he's fortunate, he isn't playing for a shot at the WC, because he IS the WC. But describing this game as waiting for his opponent to make a mistake...could you be more wrong?

Sep-07-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  beenthere240: A truly inane discussion.
Sep-08-17  naufallabs: why dreev not using Caro kann against Carlsen ? maybe he can beat Carlsen if he use that opening
Sep-08-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  WorstPlayerEver: Every time Carlsen wants to play a real game of the chesse he hopelessly fails. What's the matter with that guy???
Sep-08-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sokrates: <naufallabs: why dreev not using Caro kann against Carlsen ? maybe he can beat Carlsen if he use that opening> Sure he could. I think you should convey that discovery to Mr Dreev. I am sure he'd be grateful for the advice - this option obviously didn't occur to him - and use it the next time he faces the world champ.

<beenthere240: A truly inane discussion.> LOL - painfully true! :-)

Sep-08-17  1971: There's many phases to 1 game.
Sep-08-17  Gregor Fenrir: White mates in 23 (calculated by analysis.sesse.net) 30. Qb7 31. Rg1+ Rg3+ 32. Kh2 Rg4 33. Rxg4+ fxg4 34. Ra4 Qf7 35. Rxg4+ Kf8 36. Rf4 Re8 37. Rxf7+ Kxf7 38. Qf6+ Kg8 39. Kg3 Rf8 40. Qxe6+ Kg7 41. Qg4+ Kf7 42. Qd7+ Kg6 43. Qd6+ Kf7 44. e6+ Kg7 45. Qe7+ Kg8 46. Qd7 Kh8 47. e7 Rg8+ 48. Kh4 Rb8 49. Kh5 Kg8 50. e8=Q+ Rxe8 51. Kg6 Re6+ 52. Qxe6+ Kh8 53. Qc8#
Sep-08-17  1971: There's also many perspectives to one game, so saying someone is clueless for having a different one is kind of short-sighted. Especially if they're a much better player than you...
Sep-08-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  WorstPlayerEver:


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After 4... Nf6


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After 8... e6


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After 9... Qb6


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After 12... h6


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After 14. e5


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After 15... Rd7


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After 18... d4


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After 21... Ng6


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After 24... Rd3


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After 26... Bf3


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After 28... f5


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After 30. Kh1

Sep-08-17  1971: <beenthere: A truly inane discussion.>

Another bozo statement. So many of these pages are dried up without comments, and right or wrong, here we are discussing the game and abstract concepts that someone can think on and try to add to their games, and you're saying its an inane discussion.

Maybe it's so far over your head you can't even tell what's going on. Therefore, inane. Don't be rude, fishcake.

Sep-08-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: "1971: <beenthere: A truly inane discussion.

Another bozo statement. So many of these pages are dried up without comments, and right or wrong, here we are discussing the game and abstract concepts that someone can think on and try to add to their games, and you're saying its an inane discussion.>

Indeed, the very word "bozo" is derived from the French expression "beau zoo", meaning beautiful menagerie (if it's not true, it should be!)

Sep-08-17  1971: That's a beautiful comment.
Sep-08-17  bamaexpert: hmmm...waiting for his opponent to make a mistake. Isn't that what we're all doing when playing in a tournament? Mistake, blunder, whatever...makes the game a lot easier to win. "Carlsen... waiting for Dreev to make a mistake.." geez
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