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Team White vs Team Black
"Blood on the Trax" (game of the day May-25-2018)
Chessgames Thematic Challenge (2017), chessgames.com, rd 2, Nov-01
Italian Game: Two Knights Defense. Traxler Counterattack Bishop sac line (C57)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 134 OF 134 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jun-26-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <Traxler Detailed Analysis Part 2 Ė 30.Qg7+ through 55.h7>

Iíve finally completed reformatting the detailed analysis for the second set of analyses I generated, from 30.Qg7+ through 55.h7. You can download the analysis in *.zip format from here: http://www.mediafire.com/file/kqrdu....

The detailed analysis is a set of Word files, one for each move, with each file consisting of 3 parts:

1. Summary of Blackís choices after each Team White move. The moves that were considered by each of the engines in Team HKS (Houdini, Komodo, Stockfish) to be among their top 5 moves and their evaluations.

2. Analysis by engine. Detailed analysis of the lines of the top 5 moves as determined by each engine; their evaluation and moves.

3. Analysis by move. For each move identified by at least one of the engines as being among their top 5 moves, the position after that move was made and the enginesí evaluation and lines for that move.

There is a _Read_Me.doc file included in the *.zip file that gives additional details on the contents of each detailed analysis file.

As a reminder, in case any was needed, these lines are just the initial evaluations by these 3 engines. They have not been verified by either human analysis or forward sliding. So donít form any definitive conclusions bases on these analyses until both have been done.

If you have any questions, just let me know.

Jun-26-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  kwid: My post game assessment rates this opening line as playable for black with 19...Rf6 instead of h6.

[Event "Traxler Bxf7+/Bc4/b4"]
[Site "web"]
[Date "2018.06.26"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Theory"]
[Black "Analysis"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "C57"]
[Annotator "kwid"]
[PlyCount "157"]
[EventDate "2018.??.??"]

C57: Two ♔nights: Wilkes-♗arre/Traxler and 4 ♘g5 d5 5 exd5, unusual ♗lack 5th moves 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 Bc5 5. Bxf7+ Ke7 6. Bc4 Rf8 7. O-O Qe8 8. b4 Bxb4 9. c3 Ba5 10. d4 d6 11. f4 Bb6 12. Kh1 exd4 13. e5 Ng4 14. exd6+ cxd6 15. h3 Ne3 16. Re1 Kd7 17. Bxe3 dxe3 18. Na3 Qe7 19. Nb5 Rf6 20. Qd3 (20. Bd5 Kd8 21. Ne4 (21. a4 Rxf4 22. Nf7+ Rxf7 23. Bxf7 Bxh3) 21... Rxf4 22. Nexd6 Bg4 23. Qd3 Ne5 24. Qxh7 a6 25. Nxb7+ Kd7 26. Nd4 Raf8 27. Qb1 (27. Rxe3 Rf1+ 28. Rxf1 Rxf1+ 29. Kh2 Qf8 30. Qg8 Nf3+ 31. Bxf3 Qxg8 32. Bxg4+ Kc7 33. Re7+ Kb8 34. Nc6+ Ka8 35. Nd6 Bg1+ 36. Kg3 Bf2+ 37. Kh2 Bg1+) 27... Kc7 28. Rxe3 Qg5 29. Rg3 Qh4 30. Qb4 Qxg3 31. Ne6+ Bxe6 32. Qd6+ Kc8 33. Bxe6+ Kxb7 34. Bd5+ Kc8 35. Be6+ Kb7) 20... Kd8 21. Ne4 (21. Rad1 a6 22. Nxd6 Kc7 23. Nge4 Rh6 24. Rb1 Ba7 25. Red1 Rb8 26. Qe2 Bc5 27. Ne8+ Qxe8 28. Nxc5 Qe7 29. Rd5 Rd6 30. Rbd1 Rxd5 31. Rxd5 g6 32. Qf3 Bf5 33. g4 Rd8 34. Rxf5 gxf5 35. Ne6+ Kb8 36. Nxd8 Qxd8 37. gxf5 Qd2 38. f6 Nd8 39. Qe2 Qxc3 40. f7 Qf6 41. Qxe3 Nxf7 42. Kh2 Kc7 43. Bb3 Nd6 44. Qe5 Qg6 45. Bd1 (45. f5 Qxf5 46. Qxf5 Nxf5 47. Bc2 Ng7 48. Bxh7 b5 49. h4 a5 50. Kg3 Nh5+ 51. Kf3 Nf6 52. Bg6 a4 53. Bc2 Kd6 54. Kg3 Ke5 55. Bg6 Ne4+ 56. Kg4 Nc3) (45. Be6 Qd3 46. Bd5 Qc2+ 47. Kg3 Qg6+ 48. Kf2 Kd7 49. Bf3 Qc2+ 50. Qe2 Qxe2+ 51. Bxe2 Ke6 52. Bg4+ Kd5 53. Ke3 b5 54. Bf3+ Ke6 55. Bd1 h6 56. Kd4 Kf5 57. Kc5 Ne4+ 58. Kb6 Kxf4 59. Kxa6 Kg3 60. Bb3 Nc3 61. Be6 h5 62. Ka5 Nxa2) 45... b5 46. Be2 Kc6 47. Bf3+ Kc7 48. Qe7+ Kb6 49. Qe3+ Kc7 50. Qa7+ Kd8 51. Qxa6 Qc2+ 52. Bg2 Qd2 53. Qa3 Qxf4+ 54. Qg3 Qh6 55. h4 Ke7 56. Qe5+ Qe6 57. Qg5+ Qf6 58. Kg3 h6 59. Qxf6+ Kxf6 60. Kg4 b4 61. Kh5 Kg7 62. Bc6 Nf5 63. Ba4 Nd4) 21... Bf5 22. Nbxd6 Kc7 23. Nxf5 Rxf5 24. Ng5 Rf6 25. Qxh7 Rd8 26. g3 Kb8 27. Rad1 Rfd6 28. Rxd6 Qxd6 29. Ne4 Qd7 30. Kg2 Na5 31. Be2 Qd5 ( 31... Qf7 32. h4 a6 33. Bf3 Qxa2+ 34. Re2 Qf7 35. f5 Qf8 36. Ng5 Rd7 37. h5 Qe7 38. Ne4 Qd8 39. f6 gxf6 40. Qg6 Nc6 41. Qxf6 Qc7 42. Qf4 Qxf4 43. gxf4 Rf7 44. Rb2 Bc7 45. Nc5 Bd6 46. Nd3 Nd8 47. Kg3 a5 48. Bg4 Rc7 49. Kf3 Rxc3 50. Bf5 Bf8 51. Kxe3 a4 52. Rh2 Bh6 53. Ra2 a3 54. Kd2 Rb3 55. Kc2 Rb5 56. Bg6 Bf8 57. h6 Bxh6 58. Rxa3) 32. h4 Nc4 33. Kh3 Qd7+ 34. Kh2 Nd2 35. Ng5 $16 Rc8 36. Rc1 a6 37. Qg6 Ka7 38. Qe6 Qd8 39. c4 Rc6 40. Qf5 Bc5 41. Nf7 Qd4 42. Rc2 Rc7 43. Ne5 Bd6 44. Nf3 Nxf3+ 45. Bxf3 Rxc4 46. Rxc4 Qxc4 47. Qd7 Qc7 48. Qxc7 Bxc7 49. Kg2 b5 50. Be4 a5 51. h5 Bb6 52. Kf3 Kb8 53. g4 Kc8 54. f5 Bd8 55. Kxe3 Bg5+ 56. Kd4 b4 57. Kc5 Kd7 58. Kb5 Bd8 59. f6 Bxf6 60. Kxa5 Be7 61. Ka4 Ke6 62. g5 Ke5 63. g6 Kf6 64. Bf3 Kf5 65. Kb3 Bd6 66. Be2 Kg5 67. Kc4 Kf6 68. Kb5 Kg5 69. Bd1 Kf6 70. Bc2 Kg5 71. Kc6 Bf8 72. Bd1 Kf6 73. Kd5 Be7 74. Kc4 Bd6 75. Be2 Bf8 76. Kb5 Bd6 77. Kc6 Bf8 78. Bd1 Be7 79. Kd5 $11 1/2-1/2

Jun-27-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  centralfiles: <Kwid> you need use different kinds of brackets parentheses etc.. to make it possible to follow your post.
Jun-27-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  kwid: <centralfiles: <Kwid> you need use different kinds of brackets parentheses etc.. to make it possible to follow your post>

Just copy the whole game including the first bracket, paste as a pgn or game into a program from fritz , chessbase or shredder etc. and you can replay it there.

Jun-27-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  centralfiles: <kwid> comes out just fine after pasting but for some reason it concludes 0-1 instead of 1/2-1/2.

It seems that 16$ is fritz for +- and 11$ is fritz for 0-1 and you manually wrote 1/2-1/2 yourself after pasting from fritz program.

Jul-02-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: <WinKing><***55...1-0 - 9 votes - (50.0%)***
55...Bxh7 - 8 votes - (44.4%)
55...Bxh7 - 1 vote - (5.6%) >

So, on black's 55th move, the top vote-getting move was to resign, but the 2nd place vote 55...Bxh7 was played.

Evidently, a vote to resign requires *exceeding* 50% of the team to approve. The vote to resign on move 55 only *equaled* to 50%, just barely failing to end the game.

I didn't know about this extra requirement for a resignation vote.

Jul-03-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: Oop - Ignore my previous comment - Move 55 was the last move. :-p
Jul-03-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <YouRang> You indicate that 55...Bxh7 had 8 votes and the "other" 55...Bxh7 had 1 vote. But clearly that's not right. In Team White vs Team Black, 2017 (kibitz #3529) <chessgames.com> indicates that 55...Bxh7 had 8 votes and the total # of votes was 18, so a different move got 1 vote. I think that <chessgames.com> would have counted 55...BxH7 as a different move than 55...Bxh7 unless they manually corrected it, but I don't think that was the case. Does anyone have any idea what that other move was? I couldn't find it.

I would think that 1-0 is just a move vote like any other move vote, so if 55...Bxh7 had 9 votes, then it would have been tied with 1-0 as the move of choice by Team Black, and <chessgames.com> would have picked one of them at random. So in that case there was a 50/50 chance that 55...Bxh7 could have been selected as Team Black's move.

I think that <chrisowen> said it best: "Hive hint at enact vote let victory in light ramble h7 headhunt hang it ok overt as no?" (Team White vs Team Black, 2017 (kibitz #3527)). Go ahead, prove me wrong! :-)

Aug-06-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tiggler: <AylerKupp>:<I would think that 1-0 is just a move vote like any other move vote, so if 55...Bxh7 had 9 votes, then it would have been tied with 1-0 as the move of choice by Team Black, and <chessgames.com> would have picked one of them at random.>

Your theory is confirmed by a post from <Sneaky>, who we now know was Daniel Freeman. Daniel Freeman

<Sneaky> appeared as a memebr of team black in this game. At one point he mentioned that it was fortunate that the computer did not randomly pick 1-0 as the black move when it was tied with another.

Incidentally, the following appears among the general rules for CG Challenges: <The Chessgames administrators will sign-up to become team members, but only for the purpose of answering questions and ensuring that the game runs smoothly; the administrators will never vote for moves or participate in the analysis.>

In this instance <Sneaky> did participate in analysis, so obviously Daniel had delegated admin and arbiter duties for the game. On the team black pages the official announcements are made by <Administrator>, but on team white pages the identical messages were posted by <ChessGames> (See for instance on page 1.)

Aug-23-18  zsoydd: Today in the morning I finally managed to decipher one of the most mysterious encrypted prophecies of Nostradamus:

It says, in our next challenge we'll finally meet our nemesis:

Stockghoti10 on a workstation with
- 196 cores at 4 GHz
- 2 TB RAM
- with 7-men Syzygy EGTB
- 3 days per move (i.e. 60 ply or more in the average from move 1 on, up to 120 ply in the endgame)

vs

chessgames team

Of course I don't believe in this "nemesis" nonsense.

Should be an easy pray for us. :)

Aug-23-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <zsoydd> I strongly suspect that if you were to add up the computer resources available to the chessgames team they would greatly exceed 196 cores and 2 TB of RAM, although the average clock rate would likely be < 4 GHz. And, if we take forward sliding into account, the team's search depths would greatly exceed 60 ply.

Besides, by the time Stockghoti (and yes, I'm probably one of the few who gets that reference) has access to 7-piece Syzygy releases, we'll have Leela C0 on our side.

Yes, it should be an easy prey for us. :-)

Aug-23-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <Tiggler> I didn't know that Daniel Freeman was <Sneaky>. All those years! How very sneaky of him! But at least he probably got the avatar of his choice without any problem.

And I hope he had me on his ignore list so that he didn't have to pore through my interminable posts. But maybe I'm just delusional that he read any of them.

Aug-23-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Just one more oddity of the site. I had my suspicions, but the fact he participated in team games, which was against the rules, and won Caissars, which was likewise against the rules, along with some of his posts back and forth with cg.c convinced me they were just real life friends. Several people knew for certain, and many besides me had our suspicions, I'm sure, but I wonder if he had ever intended to come clean in a public manner.
Aug-23-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Count Wedgemore: <OCF: I had my suspicions, but the fact he participated in team games, which was against the rules, and won Caissars, which was likewise against the rules,>

He played the Chessbookie game as well. I noticed <Sneaky>'s name among the participants just last leg, and the one before that. This made me have a look at the ChessBookie Hall of Fame page, and I see that he ended up in the Top Ten several times: most notably he took 3rd place in the Championship leg in 2015, and 4th in the 2010 Championship. So he's been close to winning the whole thing.

This was clearly a bit unethical. I mean, as I understand it, he often put up events to bet on in the game, helping out and supplementing the bookie and/or substituting for the bookie. And surely he had access to see what (and how much) the other players were betting on. I find this to be a bit disconcerting.

Me personally, I admit that If I had been around here almost since the beginning, like so many of you guys here have, I would have felt a bit let down, and not found this whole <Sneaky> business to be just charming and amusing. Quite frankly, I understand if some of you also feel a bit disappointed. This doesn't take away all the great qualities this remarkable person had, of course.

<..but I wonder if he had ever intended to come clean in a public manner.>

I seriously doubt that.

Aug-24-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  WinKing: <AylerKupp: <YouRang> You indicate that 55...Bxh7 had 8 votes and the "other" 55...Bxh7 had 1 vote. But clearly that's not right.>

***55...1-0 - 9 votes - (50.0%)***
55...Bxh7 - 8 votes - (44.4%)
55...other - 1 vote - (5.6%)

Sorry for the confusion <YouRang> & <AylerKupp>. There were 18 votes total for black's 55th move. It was supposed to read 9 votes for 1-0, 8 votes for 55...Bxh7 & 1 vote for other. I mistakenly listed 55...Bxh7 twice. My apologies.

Aug-24-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <WinKing> As a punishment, you are sentenced to forever be <required> to play the Black side of the Traxler every time that you have the opportunity to do so.

Care for a game? :-)

Aug-28-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  kwid: <zsoydd: this "nemesis" nonsense -- should be an easy pray for us. :)>

finding sponsors for such a computer could be a difficult task. but I would really like to see such a challenge in my remaining life time unfolding and taking part of solving a specific opening line.

such a challenge would require preliminary discussions about currently popular opening lines still rated unclear and what would a 90 ply move order generate using the single best or multiple top rated engines.

Aug-29-18  Ceri: Hi, all.

I am between holidays and had a chance to visit this game again to check out 19... Rf3.

There are some lines where White still has a chance, I think:

[Event "Traxler Bxf7+/Bc4/b4"]
[Site "web"]
[Date "2018.06.26"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Theory"]
[Black "Analysis"]
[ECO "C57"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 Bc5 5. Bxf7+ Ke7 6. Bc4 Rf8 7. O-O Qe8 8. b4 Bxb4 9. c3 Ba5 10. d4 d6 11. f4 Bb6 12. Kh1 exd4 13. e5 Ng4 14. exd6+ cxd6 15. h3 Ne3 16. Re1 Kd7 17. Bxe3 dxe3 18. Na3 Qe7 19. Nb5 Rf6 20. Rb1 Kd8 (20... h6 21. Nf7 Na5 22. Bd5 Ke8) 21. Qd5 a6 (21... Bd7 22. Red1 Rxf4 (22... Rf5 23. Qxd6 Qxd6 24. Rxd6 Rf6 25. Be6 Rxe6 26. Nxe6+ Ke7 27. f5) 23. Rf1 Rf2 24. Ne4 Na5 (24... Qe5 25. Nxf2 Qxd5 26. Bxd5 exf2 27. Nxd6) 25. Nxf2 exf2 26. Bd3 Be6 27. Qf3) 22. Nxd6 Rxd6 23. Nf7+ Kc7 24. Nxd6 Qxd6 25. Qxd6+ Kxd6 26. Rxb6 Kc5 27. Rxc6+ Kxc6 28. Rxe3 Kd6 29. Re8

I've almost certainly missed many possible variations but there is some food for thought here.

Cheers,

Ceri

Aug-30-18  Ceri: Hi, all,

I played around a little more:

[Event "Traxler Bxf7+/Bc4/b4"]
[Site "web"]
[Date "2018.08.30"]
[Round "?"]
[White "ceri Traxler"]
[Black "Analysis"]
[ECO "C57"]
[Result "1-0"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 Bc5 5. Bxf7+ Ke7 6. Bc4 Rf8 7. O-O Qe8 8. b4 Bxb4 9. c3 Ba5 10. d4 d6 11. f4 Bb6 12. Kh1 exd4 13. e5 Ng4 14. exd6+ cxd6 15. h3 Ne3 16. Re1 Kd7 17. Bxe3 dxe3 18. Na3 Qe7 19. Nb5 Rf6 20. Rb1 Kd8 (20... h6 21. Nf7 Na5 22. Bd5 Ke8 23. Qd3) (20... g6 21. Bd5 Rxf4 22. Be6+ Kd8 23. Qd5 (23. Nxd6 Kc7 24. Nb5+ Kb8 25. Bxc8 Kxc8 26. Qd5 Qe5 27. Qg8+ Nd8 28. Nf3) 23... Rf6 24. Nf7+ Rxf7 25. Bxf7 Bf5 26. Rbd1 Be4 27. Qxd6+ Qxd6 28. Rxd6+ Ke7 29. Re6+ Kxf7 30. Rxe4 Rd8 31. Na3) 21. Qd5 a6 (21... Bd7 22. Red1 Rxf4 (22... Rf5 23. Qxd6 Qxd6 24. Rxd6 Rf6 25. Be6 Rxe6 26. Nxe6+ Ke7 27. f5 Nd8 28. Nxd8 Rxd8 29. Rd5 Rc8 30. Nxa7 Rc5 31. Rxd7+ Kxd7 32. Rxb6 e2 33. Re6 Ra5 34. Rxe2 Rxa7) 23. Rf1 Rf2 24. Ne4 Na5 (24... Qe5 25. Nxf2 Qxd5 26. Bxd5 exf2 27. Nxd6) 25. Nxf2 exf2 26. Bd3 Be6 27. Qf3 Nc4 28. Nd4 Nd2 29. Qxf2 Nxf1 30. Re1 Bxd4 31. cxd4 d5 32. Qxf1 Qf7 33. Qe2 Bd7 34. Qd2) 22. Nxd6 Rxd6 23. Nf7+ Kc7 24. Nxd6 Qxd6 25. Qxd6+ Kxd6 26. Rxb6 Kc5 27. Rxc6+ Kxc6 28. Rxe3 Kd6 29. Re8 1-0

Cheers,

Ceri

Aug-30-18  zsoydd: The present global lack of interesting running corr chess team games is a disappointingly disappointing disappointment.
Aug-30-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  morfishine: <zsoydd: The present global lack of interest running corr chess team games is a disappointingly disappointing disappointment> Speak for yourself, for yourself, for yourself
Aug-30-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Check It Out: It sounds like he is, is, is.
Aug-30-18  Ceri: <zsoydd>

Hi, there,

Some years back you posted a few problems which computers couldn't solve and I would like to revisit them.

One in particular had a Queen sacrifice / zugzwang theme, with Black's King on g8, White's on f6, with a White pawn on g6 and Black pawns on f7 and h7. White's LSB was the key piece. Do you recall it, please?

Off to S America tomorrow.

Cheers,

Ceri

Aug-30-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Dr Winston OBoogie: Interesting game and bizarre opening from black, I've never seen that before. This through me a little...


click for larger view

It took me a minute to realise why black couldn't play NxR. h7 and game over.

Sep-03-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  mistermac: The Black side did its best. There was a lot of confusion at various stages.

perhaps <kwid> should be invited to play the east of the world, possibly in a non-engine game.

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